Shocked by a new hire's view on scope.
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 456
Because many at the regionals have seen the downside of outsourced flying by being whipsawed against each other for 20 years. I think most folks at the regionals want to see flying returned to mainline, however ther is almost nothing we can do about it at the regional level. unfortunately, if your not a zombie ( sticking with the word of the thread) you are probably going to have to start at a regional today because scope we a given up in the past. so I'm not really sure where your last sentance is going
#32
I know you’re talking generalizations but this particular instance is about a retiree. He’s done.
#33
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Posts: 234
Honestly, I didn't think any mainline pilot today would ever consider giving an inch on Scope, but I must admit I was shocked when my last FO, a Zoomie with a 20 year career and retired Lieutenant Colonel, said that he thinks we could give on Scope for added pay so long as the company promised to give us the jobs back in the next downturn. Obviously, I offered an alternative view, but I don't think he was convinced.
Anyways, I was just surprised to find anyone that would give on Scope. I hope there aren't many more like THAT
Anyways, I was just surprised to find anyone that would give on Scope. I hope there aren't many more like THAT
#34
Really, Airhoss? Should people here dredge up the unpopular things that have been heard from non-Zoomies like yourself? Or maybe stereotype United interns that fly here?
Exactly... there is a subset of every group that doesn't think the way we do. And a subset of pilots that we wish hadn't gotten hired.
They come from all ranks.
Don't start the "military vs civilian" fight again, please. It's thankfully been gone for a while around here (for the most part).
Exactly... there is a subset of every group that doesn't think the way we do. And a subset of pilots that we wish hadn't gotten hired.
They come from all ranks.
Don't start the "military vs civilian" fight again, please. It's thankfully been gone for a while around here (for the most part).
#35
Those who are clueless when it comes to why we have contract we do (including scope) are typically those who are trying to cut in line for management jobs. Fortunately they’re in the minority, but you generally waste your breath trying to explain anything about unionism to them.
#36
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Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: UNA
Posts: 4,417
haha didn't catch the autocorrect. I had several former mil in my class. most were gone in less than 9 months. but I would bet if you spent any measurable time at the regionals you are not volunteering to give up scope like the OP said.
#37
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Joined APC: Sep 2010
Posts: 419
Because many at the regionals have seen the downside of outsourced flying by being whipsawed against each other for 20 years. I think most folks at the regionals want to see flying returned to mainline, however ther is almost nothing we can do about it at the regional level. unfortunately, if your not a zombie ( sticking with the word of the thread) you are probably going to have to start at a regional today because scope we a given up in the past. so I'm not really sure where your last sentance is going
#38
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Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,159
To finish that thought.....Simply following "leadership" is what makes the military effective. However, in the civilian side, we have two kinds of leadership that must be understood. More education needs to take place for and on behalf of military and former military civilian employees.
Let's begin...……
Dear retired/former military employee. Hi, my name is Oscar Munoz, I am the boss at United Airlines. Welcome to the civilian sector and to United Airlines. There is a union on property that negotiates and maintains the contract on your behalf. That union is called ALPA. My good friend Scott Kirby has been placed in a leadership role in flight operations. His job is to trick, and manipulate ALPA in order to squeeze out every last dollar out of flight operations. ALPA's job is to protect the pilot group from Scott Kirby and his trickery.
You have two bosses. One boss runs the operational side of the company. The other boss runs the terms and conditions as to how, when, and where the pilot group does it's job.
On the operational side, we want you to come to work on time, fly a safe, standard airplane and don't get in trouble on an HR related foolishness.
On the union side, we understand you will and should fly the contract.
I guess that should cover it....
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Position: UNA
Posts: 4,417
Well here you go, making huge generalizations and preaching unionism seems a bit weak considering a large amount of UAX was conducted during downtown was by non-union pilots who vote crap undercutting contract after contract. Not helpless as you suggest. Ask a XJT pilot and they get it!
#40
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Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,159
As far as undercutting goes that is why managemt wants the regional model to exist. Whenever any pilot group tries to improve something, their mainline partner will shift flying to other carriers. There is not much that could be done by ALPA unless they got all the regionals under the same flying contract like the UAW.
I get it. all, and I mean all flying done in-house to include regionals, one airline, one union, one bargaining unit.
or
separate companies and separate unions
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