Vacancy 19-04

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11-09-2018, 02:43 PM

#141

Deafguppy

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Joined APC: Oct 2015

Posts: 169

Arguing about whose legacy airline fleets (that we as pilots had no control over) was better is getting really old.

Things are better post-merger than they ever would have been if we both stayed separate, IMO.

Maybe we can take this negative energy and use it on something productive like getting a good contract now.

11-09-2018, 02:55 PM

#142

oldmako

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Joined APC: May 2009

Position: The GF of FUPM

Posts: 3,073

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deafguppy

Arguing about whose legacy airline fleets (that we as pilots had no control over) was better is getting really old.

True

Things are better post-merger than they ever would have been if we both stayed separate, IMO.

Thousands would vehemently disagree.

Maybe we can take this negative energy and use it on something productive like getting a good contract now.

One can hope! Yet, IMO we have zero leverage to press this issue. I hope you're content with the current one.

Merger scars last a LONG time. Any perceived injustice in the SLI will last till retirement and beyond. Just ask the Piedmont, PSA, Republic etc guys. Anyone who expects otherwise will likely be disappointed for a LONG time as well.

11-09-2018, 03:12 PM

#143

MasterOfPuppets

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Joined APC: Feb 2012

Position: 787

Posts: 3,137

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReadyRsv

I wasn't here during the integration, so I'm not going to waste my limited rage supply on something that I cannot possibly change (history).

In my opinion, having more high paying aircraft is good for pilots.

So wouldn’t unbanding the 764 from 777/787 and rasing the 763 up to the 764 pay more pilots a higher rate since we have 36 763’s? Or should the 16 764s just be special for some reason?

11-09-2018, 03:40 PM

#144

ReadyRsv

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Joined APC: Jul 2015

Posts: 859

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets

So wouldn’t unbanding the 764 from 777/787 and rasing the 763 up to the 764 pay more pilots a higher rate since we have 36 763’s? Or should the 16 764s just be special for some reason?

Sure, but that's not what was originally surmised. If you can convince the MEC to distribute the exact amount plus .01c amongst the 763 fleet why not? But then you'll have to talk about the 753. Then should we take the 752 and lump it with the 320/737? That would raise the average for reserves on both fleets! Of course, this is all a zero sum game, and an MEC wasting valuable resources to voluntarily re-litigate the past for no actual dollar increases in this time of record health of the industry would and should be immediately recalled.

BUT, none of that will ever happen and would result in the same amount of money being paid out. Which is why I said originally that I'm not interested in revising history because it is unproductive.

The 764 pays well, so be it. Maybe focus your energy on 763 getting banded to the top tier.

11-09-2018, 03:42 PM

#145

Bpcrate

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Joined APC: Apr 2013

Posts: 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunvox

During the SLI, UAL-ALPA put up a graph showing the history of pay scales at both United and Continental. Up to 2005 United's pay scales were significantly higher than Continental's and had been so for over 3 decades. In 2005, you may recall, United's pay scales were set by a judge in bankruptcy proceedings. On no planet in the universe did any pilot at United expect that relationship to be maintained. Every United pilot expected pay rates would return to the pre-bankruptcy levels which historically had been higher than Continental's once the next opportunity to negotiate arose. That opportunity came with the JCBA at which time the union was able to negotiate rates higher than Delta's something Continental pilots had never before achieved. The relative pay rates you are using as an argument were not representative of the long term reality but rather were an aberration caused by the 2005 bankruptcy.

As to the point of 767-400 pay, I think it is a silly discussion. It should remain banded with the top pay rate. Why would anyone argue otherwise unless they somehow believe 16 planes are dragging down the potential max value. Delta pilots are arguing to bring their 764s up to our level. Let's not ruin their opportunity to increase their pay. Who knows maybe our NC can get the 767-300 banded up as well

Standard brainwashed Lual argument. Get over yourselves.

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11-09-2018, 03:58 PM

#146

Airhoss

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Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.

Posts: 5,709

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bpcrate

Standard brainwashed Lual argument. Get over yourselves.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Or you know, factual, researchable and correct. Sorry if that hurts your little feel feels.

11-09-2018, 05:02 PM

#147

sleeves

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Joined APC: Mar 2006

Position: 737 fo

Posts: 908

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets

So wouldn’t unbanding the 764 from 777/787 and rasing the 763 up to the 764 pay more pilots a higher rate since we have 36 763’s? Or should the 16 764s just be special for some reason?

Why not raise the 763 up to the 777/787/764 level? Bring all wide body's to wide body pay?

11-09-2018, 05:15 PM

#148

Deafguppy

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Joined APC: Oct 2015

Posts: 169

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldmako

I am not even going to say which side I came from, but IMO CO had a bunch of shiny new airplanes weighted towards NB and a very limited route structure. UA had a lot of old airplanes weighted toward WB, needing a lot of maintenance, but had many really desirable hubs and routes begging for fresh planes.

UA had DB Tilton, CO had DB Smisek. CO higher pay rates, UA better work rules.

UA definitely beat CO in one area- they didn’t tolerate scabs!

I really don’t think either would have thrived alone in the post NW-DL, AA-US environment.

Interested to hear your thoughts.

11-09-2018, 05:46 PM

#149

oldmako

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Joined APC: May 2009

Position: The GF of FUPM

Posts: 3,073

My thoughts will only inflame the Black Team, just as many of theirs only inflame the Blue Team. As such, I don't see any value in revisiting the topic. Most of us are fairly well dug in on pay banding, the SLI, etc.

I'll not opine further. However, when someone posts easily refutable BS, we should all reserve the right to blow the BS whistle. It's just a forum after all and healthy debate is good. Especially for the FNG's who have to listen to both sides while droning across the sky.