Vacancy 19-04
11-08-2018, 05:05 PM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: 777 CA
Posts: 1,029
Originally Posted by JoePatroni
If they agreed, why does the 767-400 pay the top rate?
They -400 pays the same because JPOS said he was taking his little red wagon and going home if the UAL MEC didn’t agree to the carve out . We wouldn’t have an SLI until we had a Joint Contract.
Do we really have to go down this road again?
11-08-2018, 05:07 PM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 1,826
Originally Posted by UALinIAH
You need to put down your shovel and quit while you are behind. Arbitration had nothing to do with our TA it was about the SLI.
They -400 pays the same because JPOS said he was taking his little red wagon and going home if the UAL MEC didn’t agree to the carve out . We wouldn’t have an SLI until we had a Joint Contract.
Do we really have to go down this road again?
They -400 pays the same because JPOS said he was taking his little red wagon and going home if the UAL MEC didn’t agree to the carve out . We wouldn’t have an SLI until we had a Joint Contract.
Do we really have to go down this road again?
11-08-2018, 05:52 PM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 777, sofa
Posts: 1,183
Originally Posted by JoePatroni
Or you could say it was dragged down by the L-UAL 767-300 rates.
Originally Posted by UALinIAH
Not going down that rabbit hole. Everyone on property then knows why the top rate was held back to allow the 767-400 pay rate to match the 747/777. We’re stuck with it now so it doesn’t matter. Just don’t play revisionist theory and make up some story about max people at top rate lol.
Originally Posted by JoePatroni
Where do you think the twelve year max came from? The 767-400 paid the same as the 777 at CAL, so did the 767-200. What exactly was “held back?” The only thing “holding” anything back was the starting point.
Originally Posted by O2pilot
So you’re saying we’d be better off with 180 planes paying $330 per hour, instead of 90 787s and 767-400s paying $330 per hour and 90 777s paying $350 per hour because we’d only have 90 planes in the “top pay rates”?
Its a cute argument, but we all know why the pay bands ended up the exact way they did.
Its a cute argument, but we all know why the pay bands ended up the exact way they did.
Originally Posted by UALinIAH
That is because CAL had what 12 777s and 16 767-400’s? UAL had more 747’s than CAL had widebody’s and 50+ 777s. We were two different airlines.
We had a larger pay cut on the 747 to match the 777 during our gun to our head BK agreement. It was a concession. We gave up top end gains on the highest paying fleet because the company data showed it saved them a ton in training events as people don’t lateral as much between fleets that pay the same.
Nevermind.
Sorry for the thread drift.
We had a larger pay cut on the 747 to match the 777 during our gun to our head BK agreement. It was a concession. We gave up top end gains on the highest paying fleet because the company data showed it saved them a ton in training events as people don’t lateral as much between fleets that pay the same.
Nevermind.
Sorry for the thread drift.
Originally Posted by JoePatroni
I’ve heard the “seniority grab” argument ad nauseam but it doesn’t hold water when you look at each pre-merger pay scale. Sorry.
Originally Posted by O2pilot
CAL had higher rates because of no work rules. When you factored in the economic benefit of the UAL work rules, every piece of equipment at UAL paid more. Arbitrators agreed. Sorry.
Originally Posted by JoePatroni
If they agreed, why does the 767-400 pay the top rate?
Originally Posted by UALinIAH
You need to put down your shovel and quit while you are behind. Arbitration had nothing to do with our TA it was about the SLI.
They -400 pays the same because JPOS said he was taking his little red wagon and going home if the UAL MEC didn’t agree to the carve out . We wouldn’t have an SLI until we had a Joint Contract.
Do we really have to go down this road again?
They -400 pays the same because JPOS said he was taking his little red wagon and going home if the UAL MEC didn’t agree to the carve out . We wouldn’t have an SLI until we had a Joint Contract.
Do we really have to go down this road again?
Originally Posted by JoePatroni
Got it, just stick with that. Look at the pre merger pay scales and keep telling yourself you’re right.
Yawn.
Move along. Both you guys are in my seat.
11-08-2018, 06:01 PM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 777, sofa
Posts: 1,183
Originally Posted by robthree
Interesting day 2 snapshot; the junior DCA, EWR, LAX, and SFO 737 CA (and EWR 320 CA) are all within 100 numbers of each other at the 10,000 mark.
And just like that it all changed. LAX went up 300 numbers, SFO up about 150. EWR 320 went up four thousand numbers.
I can't wait to play this game next month too!
11-09-2018, 03:28 AM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: EWR 777 Captain
Posts: 1,715
Originally Posted by JoePatroni
I’ve heard the “seniority grab” argument ad nauseam but it doesn’t hold water when you look at each pre-merger pay scale. Sorry.
Originally Posted by JoePatroni
Got it, just stick with that. Look at the pre merger pay scales and keep telling yourself you’re right.
As to the point of 767-400 pay, I think it is a silly discussion. It should remain banded with the top pay rate. Why would anyone argue otherwise unless they somehow believe 16 planes are dragging down the potential max value. Delta pilots are arguing to bring their 764s up to our level. Let's not ruin their opportunity to increase their pay. Who knows maybe our NC can get the 767-300 banded up as well
Last edited by Sunvox; 11-09-2018 at 03:54 AM.
11-09-2018, 04:34 AM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 737 fo
Posts: 908
Originally Posted by Sunvox
During the SLI, UAL-ALPA put up a graph showing the history of pay scales at both United and Continental. Up to 2005 United's pay scales were significantly higher than Continental's and had been so for over 3 decades. In 2005, you may recall, United's pay scales were set by a judge in bankruptcy proceedings. On no planet in the universe did any pilot at United expect that relationship to be maintained. Every United pilot expected pay rates would return to the pre-bankruptcy levels which historically had been higher than Continental's once the next opportunity to negotiate arose. That opportunity came with the JCBA at which time the union was able to negotiate rates higher than Delta's something Continental pilots had never before achieved. The relative pay rates you are using as an argument were not representative of the long term reality but rather were an aberration caused by the 2005 bankruptcy.
As to the point of 767-400 pay, I think it is a silly discussion. It should remain banded with the top pay rate. Why would anyone argue otherwise unless they somehow believe 16 planes are dragging down the potential max value. Delta pilots are arguing to bring their 764s up to our level. Let's not ruin their opportunity to increase their pay. Who knows maybe our NC can get the 767-300 banded up as well
As to the point of 767-400 pay, I think it is a silly discussion. It should remain banded with the top pay rate. Why would anyone argue otherwise unless they somehow believe 16 planes are dragging down the potential max value. Delta pilots are arguing to bring their 764s up to our level. Let's not ruin their opportunity to increase their pay. Who knows maybe our NC can get the 767-300 banded up as well
The top rate was influenced much more by what Delta and other competitors had achieved for WB pay rates then by what the seat differences were between the 767-400 and other WB aircraft. I completely agree with your second paragraph.
11-09-2018, 04:40 AM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 154
Originally Posted by robthree
And just like that it all changed. LAX went up 300 numbers, SFO up about 150. EWR 320 went up four thousand numbers.
I can't wait to play this game next month too!
I can't wait to play this game next month too!
Maybe Paul Carlson is going to institute a “Bid it Now” option.
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