bifff15

Care to expand on that? The funny thing is I fit both of those definitions and have never had the first thing handed to me because of color or gender. So that I may understand please expand.

PotatoChip

Honestly, I think that unless you are black, a female, etc, in this industry you never will understand.
If you can’t understand this without an explanation, you won’t understand it with an explanation.

bifff15

That is a case of cop out. If I'm truly, or some other white male is getting some advantage please spell it out. If you are unable, well I guess that answers the question.

John Carr

Read Rickair’s post from a while back.

There’s some saying about “the oppression one pretends to feel can’t be based on the experiences/memories of others”.

I’m NOT FLAMING YOU;

I’ve read a lot of your posts. In fact, years ago in a PM pi$$ing match you told me you’d be one of the first to get hired when it starts based on your resume, heavy time, or something.

You’ve worked your collective a$$ off and sacrificed A LOT judging by your posts elsewhere. Any legacy call you yet?

Because you’re sure as h€ll putting in the work, which I can understand. Many of us did. But I have a feeling many contemporaries that don’t fall into the AWD/MD have worked as hard as you have.

Along the lines of what Biff said, it’s a cop out mentality.

APC225

How can that be a known thing?

bifff15

Exactly. You are assuming I've had something handed to me, I'm saying not. I said define it, you answer questions with questions.

Is this what John Carr was referencing?

"White middle class+ has an advantage in getting the early education (and staying out of trouble) which is the necessary foundation to progress to many "higher end" careers, including aviation."

What I read from that is it's an advantage to getting an early (assume college) education and staying out of trouble. How are those two things tied to color? I would say they are tied to good parenting.

I worked through school, and with a single working mother to help. Took six years. Advantage? Not seeing it.

Cheers,
Biff

John Carr

We may be misreading each other.

I was referencing something in regards to what Rickair posted pages back when I mentioned the memories/experiences.

Sorry if there's a miscommunication in what we/both may be getting at.

ItnStln

Neither have I or anyone I know aside from minorities.

ReadyRsv

If you guys are actually intellectually curious about the minority or gay or female experience in the workplace, I’d suggest doing some research off of this site and away from any type of biased political websites. Maybe call up a female pilot friend or gay colleague and ask them “is it harder to be a gay pilot day to day?”

Then you might understand.

PotatoChip

I only very vaguely remember the PM exchange. I don’t recall saying “I’d be one of the first to get hired.” That’s incredibly presumptuous and arrogant, and frankly I don’t believe that’s my character. Perhaps I said I hoped I’d be one of the first. As it is, clearly that has not transpired. I still feel well-qualified, but not entitled, to interview, and several consultants have agreed. I’ll bide my time until then doing whatever I can to stack the deck in my favor. I’m certainly not “just waiting for the call” and then complaining I’m not getting it.

I hate to explain my previous post, because it’s not a cop out. I believe some people just want to believe what they believe and that’s that. However, I’ll make a feeble attempt at verbalizing something that I don’t have a first hand experience in...

I cannot ever understand what it’s like to be a female in the this industry. I will never understand how it feels to know that any cockpit you enter might aggravate the pilot you’re flying with simply because you’re a woman and now they’ll feel like that have to alter their behavior to not offend you. I’ll never know what it feels like to overhear “another empty kitchen” jokes, or field constant questions like “what does your husband think?” “Don’t you want kids?” “Are you going to quit for a family?”. I’ll never know what it feels like to have entire threads derail into “She was only hired because she was a woman” and then sit next to someone who believes exactly that. I can’t understand that and won’t pretend I do. If you don’t think that this is an immediate disadvantage, then I’m sorry. If you can’t have sympathy for those female pilots who just as hard as anyone else only for their peers to make jokes behind their backs or say they were only hired because of their anatomy, I’m sorry.

Does this fit every person? No. Do some people get hired due to some HR diversity matrix, undoubtedly.

Likewise, I won’t for a second pretend I know what it’s like to be black in America.

The truth as I see it is this, white males have an advantage simply because we are the majority. When you are in the majority you are not different. You have nothing to prove to anyone. There aren’t snide comments made about you by other pilots because of anything other than your crummy stick and rudder skills.

That’s the advantage. I’m not saying we don’t work as hard, or harder to get where we are. God knows I’ve done my time. But I’ve never sat in those other shoes.