baseball

That leverage would come from the industry's mainline pilots.

I don't know how the dominoes are going to fall, but if a significant population of pilots are furloughed after C-19 and the RJ industry experiences robust growth (again), there will be allot of angry (voting and dues paying) mainline pilots, both employed and unemployed. Those angry pilots will carry a long and heavy crowbar threw the hallowed halls of ALPA to provide some leverage to the problem.

Likely everyone's learned their lesson after the 9-11 financial contraction and recovery. Those same lessons can now be applied to the C-19 financial contraction and recovery within the transportation sector and specifically commercial aviation.

Just curious, how long has it been since Bill Couette flew an airplane? 4th consecutive term?

The stillest

look in the mirror, eh? Did you evaporate?

Itsajob

Times are very tough for the airline industry, but mainline leverage is only evaporated in bankruptcy. We negotiate directly with United, while the regional pilots deal with their subcontractors. United has announced that they plan to significantly reduce 50 seat lift. Going for large pay advances would be tough right now, but not protecting scope. Outside of bankruptcy, the only way to get any more big rj’s is to come through us. I’d call that leverage.

baseball

There is completion. Let's look at a few things....

1. The price of a pilot is the price of a pilot. On mainline routes it's starting to even out to where most airlines are paying fair and are near to each other.
2. The cost of fuel is the cost of fuel. management decides the fleet plan and therefore how fuel efficient their fleet is. They decide on the terms of buying that fuel.
3. Everything else is up to management to figure out (how to compete).

CAL never made a dollar UNLESS they held a labor cost advantage. True. no dividend also on their stock since 1968 all the way to the merger. But, CAL did compete. How? They used the pilot labor force as a profit center to subsidize the rest of their decision-making.

I don't like being used as a profit center for management. NOR should you. If you're a regional pilot consider this: your low wages are directly subsidizing management's bonuses. The cheaper you work, the more Ornstein makes.

It's management's job to compete. It's my job to make sure I get paid what I am worth. Part of that compensation is working in a professional enviornment where the value of my services is in demand. Therefore this "enviornment" must include a scenario wherby downward pressure that holds down my wages is not used aggressively or excessively that inhibits my unions job to protect my career, career path, real time earnings, job protections, and future earnings. So, the minimization of the influence of the RJ industry is a plus for the entire injudstry, not just mainline pilots, but all professional pilots. Eliminating, or reducing forces that put DOWNWARD pressure on pilot wages is a priority!

baseball

I've paid 30 years of dues. So have allot of other folks. ALPA could buy allot of crow-bars with that money.

The stillest

so now you’re saying that there IS competition.

So... 15 more RJs bring in 342 people that want to fly from your hub to an international destination 12-16 hours away... now there’s a widebody pilot slot for you to bid for. That means you’re in demand. That demand puts upward pressure on your wages.

so now you’re advocating for MORE RJs


its hard to follow all that you say as yes, you do seem to go in circles.

FXLAX

All I’ve try to do here is to explain in multiple different ways how there is no conflict of interest between regional pilot groups and mainline pilot groups of the same union (ALPA). But yes, when I summarize it to it’s simplest terms, it becomes repetitive.

That’s usually the case when trying to explain misconceptions.


Again, this goes back to polling a bunch of people on how they feel about something. Peoples’ perceptions of something don’t make it true.

I’m not necessarily against changing ALPA’s dues structure or even spinning off regional ALPA pilots into their own association, separate and independent of ALPA. I’m just saying that as it is now, regional pilots cannot change the scope clauses of mainline pilots contract. And because of that fact, there is not a conflict of interest between regional ALPA pilots and mainline ALPA pilots.


I stand corrected...doesn’t change my point though. Once mainline pilots negotiate the scope of flying they will operate, no regional pilot group can change that. And even with a regional pilot group like Horizon or Skywest (even if they were hypothetically ALPA pilots), for example, have nothing to do with the flying they do for Alaska, whose pilots have no scope protections. In both cases, the regional pilot group has no say in the scope of flying the mainline pilots operate.

baseball

the take away is that the RJ model of Ornstein and others put downward pressure on mainline jobs and careers. The RJ market needs TIGHT supervision and TIGHT control. Otherwise, the sky will be flooded with RJ's flying for 30 cents on the dollar. There's no limit to the bottom....A race to the bottom can be won by the lowest bidder. It's a race we don't want to win, and by competing against ourselves it's a race we are sure to lose.

Fewer RJ's is a big part of the answer. Let's push that demand to where the good paying jobs are.

The stillest

ALPA vs. independent RJ union... which one yields the tightest supervision and control by “mainline” pilots?

ReadOnly7

you missed his point. He’s a regional guy, first or second year, who WANTS to erode scope.