You are severely underestimating the economic impact. The cash burn rate right now at all airlines is mind boggling. This is going to knock the economy on its a$$ for a long time. I'll be surprised if 2019 passenger numbers return before 2023 because the consumer and all companies are also getting wiped out.

Block hours aren't going to return for a long time. This is a time for airlines to cut costs as much as possible and shrink in order to survive.

 

Fair enough. Now, how? Do you really think that ALPA has the horsepower to enact this change? I don't. I paid APLA dues for 13 years when I flew Part 135 on a Metro (12k/year) and then Part 121 for USAir Express. In my career, there have been at least 3 big watershed events that could have precipitated some real changes within the piloting profession/ALPA. They never happened.

ALPA is a big flying club that effectively only unionizes within each airline it represents. We look spiffy on Capitol Hill in our crisply pressed uniforms but that's about it. ALPA Legal (on an individual certificate scale) and ALPA Medical are both top-notch. But on a National level? Weak and without the tools to enact real change from my viewpoint. Hell, we even had ALPA pilots petitioning the Fed Gov to withhold stimulus monies from other ALPA pilot groups during the last industry upheaval! It wasn't so much effyew I got mine, it was effyew we got ours. Same dismal response leading to the same dismal results.

Sorry to be such a downer, but very little has changed (though nearly EVERYTHING else has changed) regarding ALPA representation issues from the top of the pile to the bottom. Big airlines have money and horsepower. Small airlines hold bake sales to get by. Until there is a National Seniority List, there will be a big cha$$$m between flying for a small regional and a large Intl airline.

 

Bat

sounds like you and I have been through about the same level of sh@t in our flying lives. I got in back in the bad old days (1990). How you ask. That’s certainly a fair enough question. There was a grumbling/rumor about a push for a universal seniority list back in the day, but there always seemed to be a crisis, a new disaster, whatever of the day, week, month, year it just seemed to die on the vine because there was ALWAYS too many pilots for each respective pilot job.

ALPA has always and I fear WILL always cater to the mainline at the detriment of the “regional” carrier. I can’t really say the word regional without wanting to spit after. Let’s face it. “Regional” means TYR/DFW, it sure as hell doesn’t mean DFW/SEA. Once we can all agree on terms, only then can we all move forward. Regional = “C” scale. No, it’s not a typo, not “B” scale, “C” scale. Second class treatment at every turn no matter what. Sadly, even by mainline pilots whose colors we flew.

They wrongly equated a lower level of competence and a lower level of professionalism proportional to the size of the aircraft we flew. Comair struck in order to end the second class treatment of small jet operators.

Back to the how.

yes this crisis is a kick in the nuts, and it’s gonna put a dent in things for a little while. But I believe we still have a historic opportunity in front of us. It’s gonna take a fundamental change in the way ALPA, and the pilot group as a whole handles things—which should be demanded of them. Stop groveling for scraps when we could take the whole plate. This seniority shell game that just happened to TSA and Compass is just WRONG. But is a perfect example of why seniority is such an important issue. It should be the gold standard.

I agree that there are some very good things available from ALPA, aeromedical, legal, etc.but they are falling short in the seniority department.

I think the first question should be. WHY?

 

Because we are not a TRUE Union.
Because we are nothing more than a big flying club that consists of individual pilot groups with CBA's at their respective airline.
Because two-thirds of our members lack the cojones to effect change HERE. They could care less about those below them at THEIR OWN airline, let alone those at others.
Because we don't have the political clout.
Because, well....I'll just quit there.

 

A few things worth pointing out....or to consider. Not disagreeing with you, but to bring the discussion to a logical conclusion:

1. Regional jets were sold to mainline as additional growth to "grow" new markets, not to take mainline flying.
2. ALPA subsidizes regional negotiations, contract maintenance and contract enforcement from mainline carriers
3. It's a conflict of interest to use mainline dues money to negotiate against mainline pilots and go after the same revenue stream. "Jim Johnson. ALPA legal."
4. This could be fixed with either a national seniority list, or wholly owned regional s with reliable and fair flow-through
5. Regional pilots should also stand united against any more scope carving from mainline flying. It's bad for the profession, growth, career earnings, and career expectations.
6. It's not unreasonable to start your own union...the regional airline pilots association. I don't view that as anti-alpa, or anti-anything. Having the right voice or the right union structurally, foundationally may be in the regional's best interest.

 

Mexico I understand has a national seniority list. The electrician union would never make a master electrician start over at a new company at apprentice wages.

True Flow? I've always find it ironic we could carry United's passengers on our metal, and not get hired by United. Heck, they own 49% of us and the planes. But we're not "good enough". Our metrics and safety record say differently. Not a p contest, just data.

As for cutting scope, that's naturally occurring. We have 40-50 airplanes on property or inbound from TSA we can't staff. TSA as I understood it couldn't staff. Part of it can be answered thusly: how many young people do you even know that CARE that you're an airline pilot, much less want to become one?

At our height we had 210 jets, now last I heard we operate around 80. And that's after combining our pilot group with ASA. It would be interesting to compute how many regional pilots there are now vs. say 2007 or so. My feeling is saying scope is naturally being handled but I haven't done the math.

 

2001 to 2012 5800 on furlough
thats how much regionals grew their 50 seat fleet and its pilots and then some more with the 70 seaters

think about it

 

you got it brother—-see number 4.

 

you make good points sir. If you want to ride on a filthy cargo bird, my jumpiest is yours.

 

At any rate, this “job” will NEVER be what it once was.

that’s truly a shame.