Agreement in Principle
09-11-2020 | 06:19 AM
#351
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Serious question, (this might be moot since we really don't know what the actual agreement is yet but I'll ask anyway) According to the AIP rumors, are pilots who were displaced from NB CA to NB FO and have already completed training in the new position going to be allowed to return to their previous position as CA or are they pay protected or....???? I guess I'm not sure what this "carve-out" guys are getting upset about is.
09-11-2020 | 06:25 AM
#352
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Serious question, (this might be moot since we really don't know what the actual agreement is yet but I'll ask anyway) According to the AIP rumors, are pilots who were displaced from NB CA to NB FO and have already completed training in the new position going to be allowed to return to their previous position as CA or are they pay protected or....???? I guess I'm not sure what this "carve-out" guys are getting upset about is.
Folks are upset that:
1) Pilots would be paid a rate for a seat they can not hold (that whole seniority thing)
2) There will be narrow body FOs earning more hourly than more senior FOs (out of seniority pay rates)
3) Pilot concessions will be used to pay for this to get pilot ratification to 50% +1 (buying votes)
So that's what's causing the furor.
Of course, the folks screaming the loudest on both sides have not seen the TA so we have no idea if this is even an argument.
09-11-2020 | 06:29 AM
#353
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Why and how are you guys wasting the brain energy and getting riled up on rumors? All you’re doing is making a great case for how you’re not even worth and wholly unfit for the pay and position you presently hold.
DOs
DOs
- Read MEC updates
- Wait for all the facts
- Once available, read TA
- PDR your questions and engage your LEC Representatives
- Don’t perpetuate unsubstantiated rumors. If it is not from an MEC communication, it is not official MEC information.
- Don’t form an opinion with incomplete information
- Don’t assume second-hand or web forum information is factual
- Don’t rush to judgment
Last edited by Barley; 09-11-2020 at 07:07 AM.
09-11-2020 | 06:30 AM
#354
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From what I understand, if trained in the new seat, they get to stay there while collecting CA pay. The rub is that they go from CA reserve to senior FO. Now they have the ability to pick up trips from a senior position, if there happens to be open trips, hence making more money. Their quality of life just improved immensely while someone senior to them sits CA reserve, all for the same pay. That’s the carve out.
Here’s an example. Junior 737 captain was bumped and now sits number 25 on the FO list in ORD making CA pay, $278 an hour. The 24 guys senior to him on the 737 ORD list never bid CA and all make $198 an hour as well as the number 26th pilot. So now we have this pilot making more money than 24 pilots senior to him, although in the same seat. He also now has the ability to enjoy better seniority than the 26th pilot while making $278 an hour with the ability to pick up the same trip at a higher pay rate. Hence the “CARVE OUT”.
09-11-2020 | 06:35 AM
#355
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Here’s an example. Junior 737 captain was bumped and now sits number 25 on the FO list in ORD making CA pay, $278 an hour. The 24 guys senior to him on the 737 ORD list never bid CA and all make $198 an hour as well as the number 26th pilot. So now we have this pilot making more money than 24 pilots senior to him, although in the same seat. He also now has the ability to enjoy better seniority than the 26th pilot while making $278 an hour with the ability to pick up the same trip at a higher pay rate. Hence the “CARVE OUT”.
If the BES doesn’t exist, another displacement bid will take place allowing those pilots to follow the normal displacement process.
09-11-2020 | 06:37 AM
#356
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Here’s an example. Junior 737 captain was bumped and now sits number 25 on the FO list in ORD making CA pay, $278 an hour. The 24 guys senior to him on the 737 ORD list never bid CA and all make $198 an hour as well as the number 26th pilot. So now we have this pilot making more money than 24 pilots senior to him, although in the same seat. He also now has the ability to enjoy better seniority than the 26th pilot while making $278 an hour with the ability to pick up the same trip at a higher pay rate. Hence the “CARVE OUT”.
09-11-2020 | 06:47 AM
#358
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making $278 an hour when his seniority cannot really hold it because he was originally displaced and then cancelled? You and I with a lower mpg. Either way, he wins, hence the “carve out” for a yes vote from that pilot.
09-11-2020 | 07:07 AM
#359
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From: WB Bunkie
Very true. But here’s the rub that goes along with that. Who is actually paying for this pilot to be
making $278 an hour when his seniority cannot really hold it because he was originally displaced and then cancelled? You and I with a lower mpg. Either way, he wins, hence the “carve out” for a yes vote from that pilot.
making $278 an hour when his seniority cannot really hold it because he was originally displaced and then cancelled? You and I with a lower mpg. Either way, he wins, hence the “carve out” for a yes vote from that pilot.
I think they will either keep their captains seats and get reduced guarantee… Or be pushed to the right seat, keep their job and get to be senior again. I just cannot imagine there would be such a special carveout for a bunch of super junior upgrades.
So, what I’m trying to say is I think your crusade is a little out of place. if I’m wrong, I will happily buy you a beer on my pay protected captain pay
09-11-2020 | 07:11 AM
#360
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From: 787 Captain
dude, I could be way off. But I just do not understand the motivation or fairness in allowing captains in the bottom third to hold their CA pay in a copilot seat…
I think they will either keep their captains seats and get reduced guarantee… Or be pushed to the right seat, keep their job and get to be senior again. I just cannot imagine there would be such a special carveout for a bunch of super junior upgrades.
if I’m wrong, I will happily buy you a beer on my pay protected captain pay
I think they will either keep their captains seats and get reduced guarantee… Or be pushed to the right seat, keep their job and get to be senior again. I just cannot imagine there would be such a special carveout for a bunch of super junior upgrades.
if I’m wrong, I will happily buy you a beer on my pay protected captain pay
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