Agreement in Principle
09-11-2020 | 06:01 PM
#421
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 740
Likes: 38
So is it possible that a couple hundred of us, myself included, that would survive a furlough of 3900 pilots, yet would barely miss being included in the middle 1/3, would take a severe beating?
1. Displaced from 737
2. Since I believe I’m in the bottom third, I would be back to the right seat and
3. Half pay as a NB FO??
I would much prefer a 90 day notice and 6 months of Furlough pay, if true.
1. Displaced from 737
2. Since I believe I’m in the bottom third, I would be back to the right seat and
3. Half pay as a NB FO??
I would much prefer a 90 day notice and 6 months of Furlough pay, if true.
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09-11-2020 | 06:03 PM
#422
Banned
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
I have been here a long time and don’t like or want to see anyone furloughed. But we are on the cusp of paying for the mitigation of furloughs by reducing mpg and accepting an A,B,C scale. Once that cat is out of the bag, the fat lady has sung. UAL pilots went on strike in 1985 because of a A and B scale and now we are possibly accepting an A, B and C scale. We are about to become seasonal workers. Good grief.
09-11-2020 | 06:11 PM
#424
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,512
Likes: 0
From: 787 Captain
I agree that you've identified the problem.
THIS is where we will disagree. The CAN'T "have us split the work and pay accordingly". Not unless we LET THEM. There is no mechanism in our contract that allows this arrangement. Do you really have the expectation that we should all just split the loss?
If you get furloughed it was because UNITED MADE THE DECISION. If it makes you feel better that they had a reason then good on ya. It sounds like you don't want to blame the company, but you will blame your fellow pilots if we vote the TA down. #amiright. We were fortunate that Uncle Sugar spread some cash that postponed the cuts, but it also gave UAL time to train down so they could furlough large blocks. It sucks that they will furlough, but you had to see it coming right?
Don't you worry one little bit about 'United's' balls. They will be JUST FINE. The employees? Not so much. If you don't believe me - just wait and see. Bonuses and pay restoration for management will be flowing way before you expect. How long have you been at United? FFS we LIVED THIS SAME THING DURING BK. They WILL pay themselves handsomely while you suck hind tit. Oh, and they won't give a rats a$$ that you 'got kicked in the balls'.
I know this forum is only a tiny sliver of the pilot group, but the more I read posts from you and Duvie I'm more convinced that we should just leave the contract alone and let the chips fall. I've always been worried about setting bad precedents with the company, but somehow a part of our pilot group now thinks seniority should go out the window in a downturn? We need to rethink a lot of how we mentored new pilots and what expectations we set.
Just seems like a lot of people want to blame the company. Are these people also blaming every other company around the world getting rid of people right now too, and should they all just pay everyone like nothing is happening? That’s not how it goes. If there’s no demand, blame the company for not burning even more money due to a problem they didn’t create?
I know this forum is only a tiny sliver of the pilot group, but the more I read posts from you and Duvie I'm more convinced that we should just leave the contract alone and let the chips fall. I've always been worried about setting bad precedents with the company, but somehow a part of our pilot group now thinks seniority should go out the window in a downturn? We need to rethink a lot of how we mentored new pilots and what expectations we set.
09-11-2020 | 06:24 PM
#425
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 0
From: 756 Left Side
09-11-2020 | 06:43 PM
#426
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 505
Likes: 0
From: Airbus
Shortened it just to not include the whole thing.
I’m not saying I don’t have any of the same concerns as some people about what could happen if a precedent is set by lowering mpg, etc. I also don’t insist that it’s a foregone conclusion either.
I’m just saying that in no way do I see it reasonable to blame companies (UA included) for shedding employees right now. It’s a business, and it exists to make money. It’s a pretty terrible time for a lot of people everywhere, but we have a lot of people here that will yell at the company all day, every day, for decreasing staffing. It just isn’t their fault. People can keep saying it’s their choice, and it obviously is. I just don’t blame a person or a company for trying to save as much money as they can while this is going on. I don’t like it but it makes sense to me.
I’m not saying I don’t have any of the same concerns as some people about what could happen if a precedent is set by lowering mpg, etc. I also don’t insist that it’s a foregone conclusion either.
I’m just saying that in no way do I see it reasonable to blame companies (UA included) for shedding employees right now. It’s a business, and it exists to make money. It’s a pretty terrible time for a lot of people everywhere, but we have a lot of people here that will yell at the company all day, every day, for decreasing staffing. It just isn’t their fault. People can keep saying it’s their choice, and it obviously is. I just don’t blame a person or a company for trying to save as much money as they can while this is going on. I don’t like it but it makes sense to me.
09-11-2020 | 06:58 PM
#428
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,657
Likes: 116
If this passes (as it is rumored to be written), it could be a long time before we get the minimum line values back to where we are now. We’ll make good money in the summer, and then they will have extremely low line values during the off season. There will always be some legal explanation as to why the snap back clause hasn’t been met. Ten to fifteen years from now another crisis will hit and the people in the bottom third today will be warning the lower third of tomorrow what happens when you play this game.......... And then the cycle repeats itself...again.
09-11-2020 | 06:59 PM
#429
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
If this passes (as it is rumored to be written), it could be a long time before we get the minimum line values back to where we are now. We’ll make good money in the summer, and then they will have extremely low line values during the off season. There will always be some legal explanation as to why the snap back clause hasn’t been met. Ten to fifteen years from now another crisis will hit and the people in the bottom third today will be warning the lower third of tomorrow what happens when you play this game.......... And then the cycle repeats itself...again.
09-11-2020 | 07:05 PM
#430
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,209
Likes: 6
From: 777
To all, Mako is right. It's not about kids in school or making Miata payments. It has been demonstrated time and again, that any give backs we pass will be abused. They will twist and turn the meaning of every word, what is "Is?" We have a contract. Follow it. The company does this whenever it advantages them, let us do that now.
Then they will pull the bait with the switch. "Oh, we didn't mean that! Grieve it." Count on it. Why give concessions when they will just come for it again in CH11? They will do what they do, manage, and blame ALPA. Then they go to court, and get what they want anyway.
No matter what the company says, any concessions will not affect the number of furloughs 1 iota. So why voluntarily give? Because they asked nicely?
Enforce the contract, insist on it!
Then they will pull the bait with the switch. "Oh, we didn't mean that! Grieve it." Count on it. Why give concessions when they will just come for it again in CH11? They will do what they do, manage, and blame ALPA. Then they go to court, and get what they want anyway.
No matter what the company says, any concessions will not affect the number of furloughs 1 iota. So why voluntarily give? Because they asked nicely?
Enforce the contract, insist on it!
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