No... the reality is the that contract doesn't specifically prohibit that behavior. And nowhere in the contract does it say you cannot cross a picket line. Don't expect the contract to lay out everything you cannot do.

Not sure what you're getting at. And maybe I'm missing the point, late on a Saturday night. Can you explain? If you're being sarcastic and I'm just missing it, please forgive me.

 

Any more explanation would be illegal...

 

I’m sure there are way more than a few who would have zero shame behaving disrespectfully toward their furloughed brethren. And there’s nothing that could have been done. If this passes that HUUUUUUUGE elephant will have been removed from the room.

 

There are also the contractual restrictions triggered by furloughs that I assume wouldn't become active. Waiving minimum days off, converting days off to reserve days, and narrowing the LPA range to 74-82. Speaking of LPA, I'd like to hear from the SSC how the application of 5-B-1-a(1) affected the manpower requirements for October.

As far as PP and picking up open time, should there be any restraint or consideration for our B scale and C scale brethren? If they need more reserve days available to cover the flying with SC and FSBs I'm sure we'd have folks who would be willing to bid more days and have a high guarantee.

 

Well said. Devil is in the details (which we don't know) but the same people that are saying "we have seen this before" are acting like infants. You're not changing opinions or mentoring but just doing managements bidding by dividing the group. Someone called the furloughs "chaff".

If we do furlough 3900 the airline isn't going to magically be crushing it 5 years from now. A lot of left seats will be nb fo and junior in BES for a long time. I also suspect a merger to not only quickly grow but to get around our base requirements and instructor requirements in the contract. IMO we are all going to feel it no matter who we blame.

 

Everyone has valid points and I think it's wrong to say people are acting greedy, infantile, scab-like, entitled, etc... THAT is divisive.

Those of us who say 'we have seen this before' are not being infantile, we are trying to send you a warning. For example, you are leveraging the threat of a merger in order to justify support for this TA right? THAT IS EXACTLY HOW MANAGEMENT WANTS US TO THINK. They change the threat each time, but the game is the same.

Post 9/11 the immediate threat was bankruptcy and loss of a lucrative pension. They got us to voluntarily accept concessions to avoid those VERY REAL threats. We got screwed - management got wealthy.

During bankruptcy the new threat became the liquidation of the company or the 'spin off' of the entire Airbus fleet onto a separate certificate. They once again got us to voluntarily accept concessions to avoid those VERY REAL threats. We got screwed - management got wealthy.

The point of this is that if you chose a career as a professional airline pilot you must be willing to face VERY REAL threats. You are going to get screwed either way, so the only question is how it's going to happen. My lesson learned is that you have to call their bluff.

So yes, if we furlough a lot of pilots and then merge - damn near ALL of us will probably get screwed in the SLI process. But don't forget that the company has a lot to lose as well. Kirby has a lot on the line - he's a young CEO and is very competitive and concerned about his success. He saw first hand how benefits accrue to the entire enterprise when the pilot group is happy (or even complacent), now I'm expected to believe he's not concerned about the impact of ****ing off the only part of the pilot group that hasn't already gotten f'd? No way. I don't know how much $$$ he's willing to put behind it, but it's surely more than we know right now. He's a gambler and he knows that pilot groups ALMOST ALWAYS FOLD. We may only have a pair of 10s while he has a huge pile of chips on the table, but it's very possible that he has a pair of 9s.

If you don't say no to concessions now, then you never will. You might as well admit it and get comfortable with the impact it will have on the rest of your career, because Kirby knows it.

 

Good ol’ guppie!

 

I'm not sure if it's really folding if we're playing in a casino that has literally collapsed around us. Also not worried about factoring in Kirby's ego or what he "has on the line" as a valid consideration. If we're going to talk in terms of gambling, it seems the bet is built around stemming short term losses and hoping for a quick (at least partial) recovery sometime this next year that we can act on.

We don't know any more than rumors about the TA yet so even if it's somewhat accurate there could be fine print that swings the needle firmly in one direction or another. We also don't know whether a recovery is going to drag out far longer, or about other wild cards like merger, CH-11 etc. For merger risks it would be miserable for us to dump about 3-4k pilots and join up with a group that's still whole and possibly averaging a decade or more younger than our average 20 year pilot. If we're temporarily dropping MPG but our value per hour of work is the same and there's a hard stop "snap back" date or something that's pretty ironclad (yeah I realize nothing is ironclad in a worst case scenario) I'd like to hear some level headed arguments either way after we all see the real language. I realize that is heresy for some. If my MPG is temporarily 30 or 50 (or whatever the number is) but I'm committed to a proportionally fewer number of work days, and it's tied to this specific emergency with a firm end date or trigger, that's a significantly different value to me than if I still work the same number of days as before.

The TLDR is blind FPLD is about as dumb as working for free out of the goodness of our hearts to save the day. Lets read the wording when it comes out and each make a rational decision after.

 

I say pick up as usual, in fact I’m sure the agreement will be designed with that in mind. Seniority does rule in the end, and if this passes no one can say the senior people wouldn’t be doing their share.

 

I’ll be voting yes along with all the decent people at this company. The bomb throwers and complainers will have fodder for years after this passes.