Again!!!
09-18-2020 | 08:07 AM
#121
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,599
Likes: 205
From: 787
Wow.
The self entitlement on full display here is nothing short of staggering.
If you're a post SLI hire, and you didn't prepare for a furlough, that's on you. You're not entitled to a GD damn thing and the senior pilots who've spent most of their careers recovering from their own furloughs, pension losses, esop, bankruptcies, etc while also providing for their own families don't owe you a GD thing... But for the past decade have provided a contract for you with industry leading pay, opportunity, and most notably new hire pay and benefits. Plenty of history out there if you were willing to absorb it and plan ahead.
Don't come back with "well this is unprecedented." It's always unprecedented. Every down turn is always worse than the one prior. It's your turn in the barrel... suck it up and take it like a professional. In 10-15 years, after we've recovered, and you've been back, and we go through this boom bust cycle again you can yell at all the young kids about how hard you had it and it's their turn but to expect those above you to make unprecedented sacrifice because you weren't ready, and to then call them greedy, is the ultimate display of hypocrisy.
Signed,
A junior group furloughee
The self entitlement on full display here is nothing short of staggering.
If you're a post SLI hire, and you didn't prepare for a furlough, that's on you. You're not entitled to a GD damn thing and the senior pilots who've spent most of their careers recovering from their own furloughs, pension losses, esop, bankruptcies, etc while also providing for their own families don't owe you a GD thing... But for the past decade have provided a contract for you with industry leading pay, opportunity, and most notably new hire pay and benefits. Plenty of history out there if you were willing to absorb it and plan ahead.
Don't come back with "well this is unprecedented." It's always unprecedented. Every down turn is always worse than the one prior. It's your turn in the barrel... suck it up and take it like a professional. In 10-15 years, after we've recovered, and you've been back, and we go through this boom bust cycle again you can yell at all the young kids about how hard you had it and it's their turn but to expect those above you to make unprecedented sacrifice because you weren't ready, and to then call them greedy, is the ultimate display of hypocrisy.
Signed,
A junior group furloughee
my goal in life is to never be the person you just described. Me me me is a bad way to go through life.
09-18-2020 | 08:11 AM
#122
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 410
Likes: 3
Wow.
The self entitlement on full display here is nothing short of staggering.
If you're a post SLI hire, and you didn't prepare for a furlough, that's on you. You're not entitled to a GD damn thing and the senior pilots who've spent most of their careers recovering from their own furloughs, pension losses, esop, bankruptcies, etc while also providing for their own families don't owe you a GD thing... But for the past decade have provided a contract for you with industry leading pay, opportunity, and most notably new hire pay and benefits. Plenty of history out there if you were willing to absorb it and plan ahead.
Don't come back with "well this is unprecedented." It's always unprecedented. Every down turn is always worse than the one prior. It's your turn in the barrel... suck it up and take it like a professional. In 10-15 years, after we've recovered, and you've been back, and we go through this boom bust cycle again you can yell at all the young kids about how hard you had it and it's their turn but to expect those above you to make unprecedented sacrifice because you weren't ready, and to then call them greedy, is the ultimate display of hypocrisy.
Signed,
A junior group furloughee
The self entitlement on full display here is nothing short of staggering.
If you're a post SLI hire, and you didn't prepare for a furlough, that's on you. You're not entitled to a GD damn thing and the senior pilots who've spent most of their careers recovering from their own furloughs, pension losses, esop, bankruptcies, etc while also providing for their own families don't owe you a GD thing... But for the past decade have provided a contract for you with industry leading pay, opportunity, and most notably new hire pay and benefits. Plenty of history out there if you were willing to absorb it and plan ahead.
Don't come back with "well this is unprecedented." It's always unprecedented. Every down turn is always worse than the one prior. It's your turn in the barrel... suck it up and take it like a professional. In 10-15 years, after we've recovered, and you've been back, and we go through this boom bust cycle again you can yell at all the young kids about how hard you had it and it's their turn but to expect those above you to make unprecedented sacrifice because you weren't ready, and to then call them greedy, is the ultimate display of hypocrisy.
Signed,
A junior group furloughee
I am a pre-merger hire and, because of the last decade, I have been able to prepare for the bad times. I’m in a great position to have my pay reduced in order to prevent outright devastation for those junior on our list.
I’m voting yes.
09-18-2020 | 08:13 AM
#123
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
I’ll bite....the MEC probably isn’t taking a cut because they are working just as much as they always do...probably more than usual these days. Any of us line pilots who fly as much as we “usually” do won’t take a pay cut either. Because it’s not a pay RATE cut, it’s a pay VOLUME cut. The end result is the same, but that should explain why the MEC isn’t taking a cut. Do we really want the MEC to do a lesser portion of their normal duties?!
I’m sure the vocal NO voters would like that, but I still think that explains why the MEC isn’t taking a cut.
I’m sure the vocal NO voters would like that, but I still think that explains why the MEC isn’t taking a cut.
Leadership is hard
09-18-2020 | 08:14 AM
#124
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,215
Likes: 50
From: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
got an issue??? Grab a tissue. Lesson learned... 40+ years in the industry hope for the best... prepare for the worst. Doesn’t make a difference the industry one works for. You kicked yourself in the nuts.. not UAL.
09-18-2020 | 08:25 AM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,508
Likes: 109
just out of curiosity, why is (10%) hardship for the senior guys unwarranted… But for the junior group (which contains a lot of guys and gals in their 40s and 50s, not millennials), divorce, uprooting your family, etc a right of passage? Why do you feel that the senior group should not suck it up and just figure out their 10% pay cut? when does one earn the right to feel entitled to what they have VS embrace the suck? 50% seniority? 30%?
There were undesirable, but well paying flying opportunities post 9/11 and in the housing crisis recession. I don’t really see that happening in the travel industry during this recession.
if you view junior pilots on any seniority list as simply job protection for senior pilots, I think then maybe you have a different definition of unionism than most people
There were undesirable, but well paying flying opportunities post 9/11 and in the housing crisis recession. I don’t really see that happening in the travel industry during this recession.
if you view junior pilots on any seniority list as simply job protection for senior pilots, I think then maybe you have a different definition of unionism than most people
That's not for you to decide. You don't get moral credit for forcing someone to support others nor do you get to dictate whats a hardship. Some of the more senior guys lost upwards of $3-5 MILLION on pension and stock (when that was their only investment vehicle) only to then be saddled with 10 years of crap pay and stagnation all the while being forced to scramble to rebuild their nest eggs so that they may have something to retire with, while supporting their own families.
It's not a right of passage, it's a well documented trend in the history of this industry. We treat it as a right of passage for those that survive it, but if you didn't prepare that's no one else's fault but your own.
Why don't you tally up everything they've lost throughout their career. It's already in the millions. I'm not so greedy and unprepared as to then ask them for more to save me. That's just pure unadulterated selfishness.
This right here is the crux of your problem. Entitlement.
There are opportunities outside of flying if you're willing to look. I know several furloughs who never came back after their turn in the barrel. One started a bar with his brother that took off, another took a real estate course, and built himself a freakin' empire of rental properties in the post 2008 bust.
Junior pilots are just that, junior. No one is any better or worse because of their date of hire. We're all pilots on the same seniority list, and there is a natural order to life on the list. Ask them, especially those who've played the furlough game... how many of them stomped their feet and threw a temper tantrum demanding that the senior guys take a pay cut for them? If they're willing, great. It's a noble cause, if they're not then that's also ok, but you don't get to demand anything from them or bully them for not paying your bills.
How would you feel if there was no TA and some junior pilot just demanded you fork over some money to keep him on the list and threatened to put you on a psudeo-SCAB list if you didn't? Because that's happening.
09-18-2020 | 08:31 AM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 286
Likes: 0
From: Guppy.
In order...
That's not for you to decide. You don't get moral credit for forcing someone to support others nor do you get to dictate whats a hardship. Some of the more senior guys lost upwards of $3-5 MILLION on pension and stock (when that was their only investment vehicle) only to then be saddled with 10 years of crap pay and stagnation all the while being forced to scramble to rebuild their nest eggs so that they may have something to retire with, while supporting their own families.
That's not for you to decide. You don't get moral credit for forcing someone to support others nor do you get to dictate whats a hardship. Some of the more senior guys lost upwards of $3-5 MILLION on pension and stock (when that was their only investment vehicle) only to then be saddled with 10 years of crap pay and stagnation all the while being forced to scramble to rebuild their nest eggs so that they may have something to retire with, while supporting their own families.
If you think the only "me" generation are the millennials, you'd be mistaken.
09-18-2020 | 08:34 AM
#129
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 110
Likes: 3
We should ALL have prepared for this eventuality during the last "good" decade". I would hope that EVERYONE would have their individual affairs in order.
09-18-2020 | 08:38 AM
#130
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 410
Likes: 3
The post you’re referencing was in poor taste and that pilot needs to tone it down. Social media makes it easier for thoughts in your head to be heard, and sometimes they shouldn’t be. Venting like he did is better said while having beers with friends.
