Again!!!
09-18-2020 | 08:43 AM
#131
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,508
Likes: 109
Fair enough, and I don't disagree with your other post either. However, let's not forget the 5 year tack-on the older guys got to recoup and keep working. What did that do to the guys who were furloughed?
If you think the only "me" generation are the millennials, you'd be mistaken.
If you think the only "me" generation are the millennials, you'd be mistaken.
If there was no TA, and a junior pilot demanded I (we) save their job, I’d chalk that up to lashing out in times of stress. I get it.
The post you’re referencing was in poor taste and that pilot needs to tone it down. Social media makes it easier for thoughts in your head to be heard, and sometimes they shouldn’t be. Venting like he did is better said while having beers with friends.
The post you’re referencing was in poor taste and that pilot needs to tone it down. Social media makes it easier for thoughts in your head to be heard, and sometimes they shouldn’t be. Venting like he did is better said while having beers with friends.
09-18-2020 | 09:06 AM
#132
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,246
Likes: 0
From: WB Bunkie
Grumble, I think you are allowing your narrative on “entitlement” to color your interpretation of what I’m actually saying.
entitlement is simply the belief an individual has that they deserve some thing. If they do deserve it, then their sense of entitlement is correct… like a senior pilot being entitled to full mpg in your view
All I am asking you is where you draw the line. What philosophy or metrics do you use to decide who is deserving? One could argue many of the double furloughees came from a generation that should’ve known pensions should not be counted on...
The problem with you thinking you understand who deserves what and therefore has a correct sense of entitlement, is that there are so many people with different circumstances and different life experiences smattered throughout our seniority ranks. It is hard to categorically say that someone who is more senior is more deserving and thus entitled to keep their full pay. Do you understand what I’m getting at?
entitlement is simply the belief an individual has that they deserve some thing. If they do deserve it, then their sense of entitlement is correct… like a senior pilot being entitled to full mpg in your view
All I am asking you is where you draw the line. What philosophy or metrics do you use to decide who is deserving? One could argue many of the double furloughees came from a generation that should’ve known pensions should not be counted on...
The problem with you thinking you understand who deserves what and therefore has a correct sense of entitlement, is that there are so many people with different circumstances and different life experiences smattered throughout our seniority ranks. It is hard to categorically say that someone who is more senior is more deserving and thus entitled to keep their full pay. Do you understand what I’m getting at?
09-18-2020 | 09:33 AM
#133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
Please. No one is apathetic that pilots are going to lose their jobs. Kindly lay off the drama since it appears that your sales pitch is already working just fine. If you will recall, a whole bunch of us already got to ride that seat-post ONLY bike. Some for a decade.
Weird times when the company has 17B in cash and yet our asses are on fire this week.
Weird times when we are considering upending the contract when CARES2 is still in limbo.
Weird times when we are considering chopping the seniority list up and having them each claw at the others with our different viewpoints.
Weird times when we willingly take on the companies economic problem and rush to make it our own.
Weird times when this program was initially sold as something that will prevent furloughs and now it looks as though they'll likely get furloughed anyway. Just like a whole mess of us did. Some twice in the past. Where was the big group-hug-Kumbaya then? ALPA was completely apathetic then.
Weird times when money is being taken out of one pilots pocket so that it can be put into anothers.
Weird times when seniority is no longer sacrosanct.
Weird times when we are willing to take on 24 months of concessions to save jobs for 8 only months.
Weird times when suddenly ALPA is the boogeyman for furloughing pilots and not the company.
Weird times when I've been told for 20 years that I'll have time to make it up and now I'll just have to suck it up.
Weird times when the Monthy Pay Guarantee will now be what exactly? It sure as hell isn't a guarantee worth having. How are we to plan on our futures?
Weird times when the company has 17B in cash and yet our asses are on fire this week.
Weird times when we are considering upending the contract when CARES2 is still in limbo.
Weird times when we are considering chopping the seniority list up and having them each claw at the others with our different viewpoints.
Weird times when we willingly take on the companies economic problem and rush to make it our own.
Weird times when this program was initially sold as something that will prevent furloughs and now it looks as though they'll likely get furloughed anyway. Just like a whole mess of us did. Some twice in the past. Where was the big group-hug-Kumbaya then? ALPA was completely apathetic then.
Weird times when money is being taken out of one pilots pocket so that it can be put into anothers.
Weird times when seniority is no longer sacrosanct.
Weird times when we are willing to take on 24 months of concessions to save jobs for 8 only months.
Weird times when suddenly ALPA is the boogeyman for furloughing pilots and not the company.
Weird times when I've been told for 20 years that I'll have time to make it up and now I'll just have to suck it up.
Weird times when the Monthy Pay Guarantee will now be what exactly? It sure as hell isn't a guarantee worth having. How are we to plan on our futures?
Keep United Weird!
09-18-2020 | 10:38 AM
#134
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,032
Likes: 18
Grumble, I think you are allowing your narrative on “entitlement” to color your interpretation of what I’m actually saying.
entitlement is simply the belief an individual has that they deserve some thing. If they do deserve it, then their sense of entitlement is correct… like a senior pilot being entitled to full mpg in your view
All I am asking you is where you draw the line. What philosophy or metrics do you use to decide who is deserving? One could argue many of the double furloughees came from a generation that should’ve known pensions should not be counted on...
The problem with you thinking you understand who deserves what and therefore has a correct sense of entitlement, is that there are so many people with different circumstances and different life experiences smattered throughout our seniority ranks. It is hard to categorically say that someone who is more senior is more deserving and thus entitled to keep their full pay. Do you understand what I’m getting at?
entitlement is simply the belief an individual has that they deserve some thing. If they do deserve it, then their sense of entitlement is correct… like a senior pilot being entitled to full mpg in your view
All I am asking you is where you draw the line. What philosophy or metrics do you use to decide who is deserving? One could argue many of the double furloughees came from a generation that should’ve known pensions should not be counted on...
The problem with you thinking you understand who deserves what and therefore has a correct sense of entitlement, is that there are so many people with different circumstances and different life experiences smattered throughout our seniority ranks. It is hard to categorically say that someone who is more senior is more deserving and thus entitled to keep their full pay. Do you understand what I’m getting at?
09-18-2020 | 11:07 AM
#135
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 0
From: 756 Left Side
I don’t have a dog in this fight other than being a dues paying ALPA member but why didn’t they do the 50hr long term leaves on a voluntary basis. Let the company decide how many in each seat and base they want and then when they are bid for you calculate the savings and see how many furloughs it mitigates. Guys that sign up get to voluntarily take a bunch of time off and get paid 50hrs/mo to do it. Anyone that doesn’t do it gets to keep their full pay. At that point hopefully enough savings adds up to mitigating all furloughs.
Southwest did this, Spirit did this, and I think AA but I’m not sure.
This United deal seems concessionary and snap back provisions never seem to play out like they’re supposed to.
Been furloughed before but outside looking in I think there is a better solution than this TA
Southwest did this, Spirit did this, and I think AA but I’m not sure.
This United deal seems concessionary and snap back provisions never seem to play out like they’re supposed to.
Been furloughed before but outside looking in I think there is a better solution than this TA
Motch
09-18-2020 | 11:22 AM
#136
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Guys.. the airline wants to grab during competition down time. This TA does a lot of things for a lot of people, and positions the company to be aggressive, which benefits everyone.
I know, I’ll get an earful now about BK, evil plans etc, all valid; but they are taking all 787 orders and will flying all of them, 737 will be quite busy and they’re taking 777 out of storage. Cargo prices staying high as well.
Voting yes on many fronts.
If it doesn’t work out, back to UPA (but bk etc... got your point already).
I know, I’ll get an earful now about BK, evil plans etc, all valid; but they are taking all 787 orders and will flying all of them, 737 will be quite busy and they’re taking 777 out of storage. Cargo prices staying high as well.
Voting yes on many fronts.
If it doesn’t work out, back to UPA (but bk etc... got your point already).
09-18-2020 | 11:24 AM
#137
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 740
Likes: 19
09-18-2020 | 11:35 AM
#138
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,508
Likes: 109
Nope, I gladly voted yes to that and was willing to give up that share of my pay. I also don't threaten or hold it against anyone that voted no. That's not to say I don't have my opinions on the matter or their reasoning but I certainly would never tell someone I'm entitled to their money.
09-18-2020 | 01:39 PM
#139
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 258
Likes: 6
From: 75/76 CA
I said that in my 30s... now with kids in college and on airline number 5... it’s all about trying to get to retirement. When you’re at the end game and you have limited time to make up for past airline bankruptcies, furloughs, concessions, snap backs that never occurred, pensions lost, and other setbacks, your perspective changes.
09-18-2020 | 02:27 PM
#140
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,508
Likes: 109
I said that in my 30s... now with kids in college and on airline number 5... it’s all about trying to get to retirement. When you’re at the end game and you have limited time to make up for past airline bankruptcies, furloughs, concessions, snap backs that never occurred, pensions lost, and other setbacks, your perspective changes.
