It's Done
10-13-2020 | 07:38 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,112
Likes: 0
From: SFO Guppy CA
Remind me again who’s bearing the cost for the migrant workers to sit around and watch the crops grow?
You’re missing the point. Reserves get pounded in the summer and winter holiday season. Other months they are utilized less. The company would benefit from lower MPGs. Anyone remember when the company opened the Bus domicile in IAH? A ton of people sat reserve waiting for the flying to ramp up. What about when they opened the 87 in IAD? Again, a bunch sat around on reserve while others endured horrid lines. How would those pilots made out if the company had the benefit of a low MPG?
You guys love those high furlough numbers. I’m surprised you haven’t thrown in the rumors of closing hubs that were being pushed during and before the vote. Delta just announced they have $21,000,000,000 in liquidity and expect to be cash flow positive by next spring. I fully expect us to be in a similar position. Do you really think we are going to cripple this airline with mass furloughs when SWA is entering ORD and IAH if our burn rate is zero to positive? My guess is United will furlough 2000, maintain this agreement, and smile all the way to the bank.
We’ve been Variabilized.
You’re missing the point. Reserves get pounded in the summer and winter holiday season. Other months they are utilized less. The company would benefit from lower MPGs. Anyone remember when the company opened the Bus domicile in IAH? A ton of people sat reserve waiting for the flying to ramp up. What about when they opened the 87 in IAD? Again, a bunch sat around on reserve while others endured horrid lines. How would those pilots made out if the company had the benefit of a low MPG?
You guys love those high furlough numbers. I’m surprised you haven’t thrown in the rumors of closing hubs that were being pushed during and before the vote. Delta just announced they have $21,000,000,000 in liquidity and expect to be cash flow positive by next spring. I fully expect us to be in a similar position. Do you really think we are going to cripple this airline with mass furloughs when SWA is entering ORD and IAH if our burn rate is zero to positive? My guess is United will furlough 2000, maintain this agreement, and smile all the way to the bank.
We’ve been Variabilized.
If they had furloughed 4000-5000, many pilots in the middle of the middle tier would be on NB reserve for a while.
10-13-2020 | 07:39 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,657
Likes: 116
Remind me again who’s bearing the cost for the migrant workers to sit around and watch the crops grow?
You’re missing the point. Reserves get pounded in the summer and winter holiday season. Other months they are utilized less. The company would benefit from lower MPGs. Anyone remember when the company opened the Bus domicile in IAH? A ton of people sat reserve waiting for the flying to ramp up. What about when they opened the 87 in IAD? Again, a bunch sat around on reserve while others endured horrid lines. How would those pilots made out if the company had the benefit of a low MPG?
You guys love those high furlough numbers. I’m surprised you haven’t thrown in the rumors of closing hubs that were being pushed during and before the vote. Delta just announced they have $21,000,000,000 in liquidity and expect to be cash flow positive by next spring. I fully expect us to be in a similar position. Do you really think we are going to cripple this airline with mass furloughs when SWA is entering ORD and IAH if our burn rate is zero to positive? My guess is United will furlough 2000, maintain this agreement, and smile all the way to the bank.
We’ve been Variabilized.
You’re missing the point. Reserves get pounded in the summer and winter holiday season. Other months they are utilized less. The company would benefit from lower MPGs. Anyone remember when the company opened the Bus domicile in IAH? A ton of people sat reserve waiting for the flying to ramp up. What about when they opened the 87 in IAD? Again, a bunch sat around on reserve while others endured horrid lines. How would those pilots made out if the company had the benefit of a low MPG?
You guys love those high furlough numbers. I’m surprised you haven’t thrown in the rumors of closing hubs that were being pushed during and before the vote. Delta just announced they have $21,000,000,000 in liquidity and expect to be cash flow positive by next spring. I fully expect us to be in a similar position. Do you really think we are going to cripple this airline with mass furloughs when SWA is entering ORD and IAH if our burn rate is zero to positive? My guess is United will furlough 2000, maintain this agreement, and smile all the way to the bank.
We’ve been Variabilized.
10-13-2020 | 07:57 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 280
Likes: 0
Kirby could NOT have furloughed 4000-5000 1 October. It would have decimated TK staffing and hamstrung retraining those left into proper fleet/seats. Once everyone is trained, the company will furlough to whatever level it needs based on demand. We may very well see 4000 furloughs next year, if demand dictates, because the training backlog will be solved (and because more senior instructors will be online by then). We paid, through previous contract negotiations, for having TK manned by seniority list pilots. Like furlough pay, RJ seat pulls, and LPA changes when pilots are on furlough, TK manning is meant to make furloughs more expensive for the company and thus act as a brake on the depth and speed of furloughs.
Kirby was holding a pair of twos and bluffed us to fold with a full house.
Kirby was holding a pair of twos and bluffed us to fold with a full house.
10-13-2020 | 08:00 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,112
Likes: 0
From: SFO Guppy CA
Kirby could NOT have furloughed 4000-5000 1 October. It would have decimated TK staffing and hamstrung retraining those left into proper fleet/seats. Once everyone is trained, the company will furlough to whatever level it needs based on demand. We may very well see 4000 furloughs next year, if demand dictates, because the training backlog will be solved (and because more senior instructors will be online by then). We paid, through previous contract negotiations, for having TK manned by seniority list pilots. Like furlough pay, RJ seat pulls, and LPA changes when pilots are on furlough, TK manning is meant to make furloughs more expensive for the company.
Kirby was holding a pair of twos and bluffed us to fold with a full house.
Kirby was holding a pair of twos and bluffed us to fold with a full house.
10-13-2020 | 08:10 AM
#55
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Scott Kirby is not a Tilton or Smallsak!!! He is paying more for the privilege of having a lot of extra staffing just in case there are opportunities to pounce on. This LOA is costing the company more by about 20%. If Kirby wanted to do the short-term fiscally responsible thing, he would have just furloughed 4000-5000 pilots. He wants to make this airline the best it can be. He wants that to be his legacy.
If they had furloughed 4000-5000, many pilots in the middle of the middle tier would be on NB reserve for a while.
If they had furloughed 4000-5000, many pilots in the middle of the middle tier would be on NB reserve for a while.
or
no disrespect to Yasiel.
10-13-2020 | 08:28 AM
#56
Line Holder
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 516
Likes: 3
From: 787 right
Kirby could NOT have furloughed 4000-5000 1 October. It would have decimated TK staffing and hamstrung retraining those left into proper fleet/seats. Once everyone is trained, the company will furlough to whatever level it needs based on demand. We may very well see 4000 furloughs next year, if demand dictates, because the training backlog will be solved (and because more senior instructors will be online by then). We paid, through previous contract negotiations, for having TK manned by seniority list pilots. Like furlough pay, RJ seat pulls, and LPA changes when pilots are on furlough, TK manning is meant to make furloughs more expensive for the company and thus act as a brake on the depth and speed of furloughs.
Kirby was holding a pair of twos and bluffed us to fold with a full house.
Kirby was holding a pair of twos and bluffed us to fold with a full house.
10-13-2020 | 08:56 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,657
Likes: 116
You are 100% correct about TK limiting furloughs and how we bought them time. You have officially been acknowledged so no need to repeat this over and over again going forward. The LOA also bought the pilots time before getting furloughed. I just don’t see any more than the 2000 getting furloughed next year. We would have easily cut 2850 by years end with no LOA. Of course you are also correct, the company could furlough 4000 pilots next year and we bought them to time to get everyone trained but the chance of that happening is slim.
10-13-2020 | 09:20 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,112
Likes: 0
From: SFO Guppy CA
10-13-2020 | 09:24 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,209
Likes: 6
From: 777
All this speculation is great fun, but even if we recover by the spring, the airline will be very different. We haven't seen an airline like what we will have--ever, maybe not since we gave up the original scope with the RJ's.
My point being, with the LOA, the changes in scope will drastically change who is flying the smaller markets. A lot more flying will come back to mainline, if the small stuff recovers. The Express carriers will be hit hard, especially while we try to recover being a smaller airline. There won't be new jobs for a long time. Which also means, the lower PBS awards will be with us for quite a while. Budget accordingly.
My point being, with the LOA, the changes in scope will drastically change who is flying the smaller markets. A lot more flying will come back to mainline, if the small stuff recovers. The Express carriers will be hit hard, especially while we try to recover being a smaller airline. There won't be new jobs for a long time. Which also means, the lower PBS awards will be with us for quite a while. Budget accordingly.
10-13-2020 | 09:41 AM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,657
Likes: 116
All this speculation is great fun, but even if we recover by the spring, the airline will be very different. We haven't seen an airline like what we will have--ever, maybe not since we gave up the original scope with the RJ's.
My point being, with the LOA, the changes in scope will drastically change who is flying the smaller markets. A lot more flying will come back to mainline, if the small stuff recovers. The Express carriers will be hit hard, especially while we try to recover being a smaller airline. There won't be new jobs for a long time. Which also means, the lower PBS awards will be with us for quite a while. Budget accordingly.
My point being, with the LOA, the changes in scope will drastically change who is flying the smaller markets. A lot more flying will come back to mainline, if the small stuff recovers. The Express carriers will be hit hard, especially while we try to recover being a smaller airline. There won't be new jobs for a long time. Which also means, the lower PBS awards will be with us for quite a while. Budget accordingly.
