hummingbear

This is a totally rational & proportional representation of the situation.

ItnStln

I’m going to have to use that line in the future!

Vito

Flyguy23 said “. If women make up 5% of applicants, but 50% of new hires, youre just taking anyone that comes along qualifications be damned.

This is the issue in a nutshell. The numbers don’t add up, If United’s goal is to hire 50% minorities and women, they will undoubtably hire some less than qualified pilots if their representation is such a low percentage of the pilot pool. BTW, United did this back in the late 80’s too after they lost a lawsuit.

hummingbear

Speaking of numbers not adding up, the 50% number doesn’t apply to general hiring, but to entrance into the Aviate program. And as I understand it, Aviate doesn’t even guarantee a job at United. So depending on how much hiring takes place outside Aviate, and how successful the individual Aviate trainees are, that 50% number could look a lot smaller once we start talking about actual hiring at the airline.

In other words, it’s a pretty nebulous “goal”, and a lot less groundbreaking than it sounds, but 50% is a good number for promotional information & corporate self-congratulations.

I really don’t think this is the “end of safe operations at UAL” crisis that many are making it out to be. I think there are a lot of competent people in our diverse community that are capable of being trained to do this job well, and at the end of the day, United still retains full autonomy to select who ends up flying our planes. Having said that, I am absolutely in agreement that no one should be hired at this airline that does not meet proficiency requirements. I just think it’s possible to address two challenges (i.e., diversity & safety) while still maintaining that one is of greater urgency than the other.

dingdong

"Going from the academy to a job at United should take about five years, the airline said."

That's a lot of time to weed out the bad pilots, retrain the mediocre pilots, and mentor and give valuable CFI and regional experience to the pilots who will succeed. I am pretty sure there will be a significant washout rate for going from zero to hero that doesn't care what color you skin is or what bathroom you use. They can hire whoever they want into Aviate to make it look good/inclusive/diversified from the outside. It doesn't mean that every Aviate cadet/cadre will make it through to a class date at DENTK. Checkrides, personal attitude, commitment, skill and training records don't care if you wipe front to back or just shake it out.

edit: Hummingbear said it better with much bigger words

ReadOnly7

I wish the company would TRULY pursue equality, and let us ALL decide if we want to wear a tie or not.

Seriously.....such an obvious double standard....

Airhoss

My wife is a DVM my daughter just got accepted to Vet school. 55% of veterinarians in the US are women. MD’s and DO’s are about 50/50 male to female ratio. If commercial aviation was a desirable job for women there’d be far more female pilots. The educational requirements and hard work needed to get into Vet school or Med school are off the charts. That isn’t holding back women from pursuing those career fields.

The main barrier holding people back from becoming airline pilots is the murky and uncertain path involved in getting to the jobs that pay a descent wage. If you go to Med school or Vet school and you graduate you’ll always have a job, you’ll have the ability to hang a shingle and run your own business. If you don’t like the practice or hospital you are working for you can move along and do better for yourself. You can set up shop anywhere you’d like to live.

Airline careers involve a huge outlay of time and or money to become qualified with ZERO guarantee that you’ll ever get a descent job. Once you do get hired by a major you have zero flexibility to move on if your airline turns into a turd. And your basing choices are set in stone and inflexible. You are away from home for long periods of time making raising a family problematic.

This career has some serious barriers to entry none of which are race or sex based. It’s a very unique lifestyle that doesn’t appeal to many people. And while the money can be good it’s not a career in which you are in control of you destiny or your financial future. You are at the whim of the airline unto which you are betrothed and then become the chattel of. If that once great airline starts to suck then your career starts to suck too no fault of your own. That’s not the case with other licensed professionals such as doctors, lawyers etc. Not having the flexibility to move on is a huge downer with this career. Other professionals can move on without having to start at the bottom of the seniority list.

Just as an example there is never a time and there has never been a time since we’ve been married that my wife doesn’t have two to three equal or better job opportunities in here back pocket. Everywhere we’ve moved chasing my aviation career she’s had a job within a day if she wanted one.

Flydafe

We can train anyone to be a pilot. We don’t get blessed by the pope with holy water to be christened to fly. I do not know why so many think that standards will fall. I don’t know why so many think that we have a difficult job. Technology and automation has made this job easy. I’ve seen Netflix on tablets at cruise. I doubt that anyone here on this form is Chuck Yeager. What’s the problem? The airlines know that interest in becoming a pilot is falling off among the youth and are desperate to fill seats ten to twenty years from now.

SonicCarhop

Your points about being an airline pilot being a questionable/uncertain career are completely accurate, but that doesn't explain why there are 10 times as many men as women in it.

flyguy23

That's extremely easy to know and understand. What is the men to women ratio for construction work? Heavy equipment operator? Police? Fire fighter?
Conversely, what is the ratio in nursing? Teaching? Childcare?
Despite what some people say, gender is not a social construct and there are very real differences between men and women and their interests.

Women can do anything they want. Most don't choose to fly. Not a single barrier to entry for those that do.