Do you want a list of all the things we compel citizens of our free country to do, even long before COVID? You can certainly argue the cost/benefit of mandates as they apply to this particular vaccine, but please tell me you’re not making the argument that American civil liberty means we just let people do whatever they want.

 

What an oddly elaborate & self aggrandizing hypothetical.

 

Lol. My point was my one life isn’t worth more than millions of others.

Your side is the one that wants others to be vaccinated for your benefit soooo…. I guess we’re even.

 

I believe in consequences of actions, but to equate this with some of the restrictions we have, we’re talking about forcing someone to do something, not restricting someone from an action. Completely different. Compulsion is not freedom and if any of your examples include compulsion then I support reversal of these actions. Freedom may not equal comfort, nor should it. I’d rather see people die than see freedoms eroded and for me it is fast approaching.

 

Half case of 5.56 with each dose. Problem solved.

FYI if you are looking for any Tula or Wolf ammo, good luck. All Russian ammo imports have been banned by Uncle Comrade Joe.

 

You’re assuming my position is as dogmatic as yours- based on what I’m not sure. I’m sympathetic with the experience of those who feel hesitancy over the vaccine, though I believe a lot of that hesitancy is being driven by some very bad actors who are amassing fortunes peddling a conspiracy narrative despite knowing it is safe & effective. I trust the findings of the CDC & the broad consensus of the scientific & medical communities more than I trust the opinions of Tucker Carlson.

Many of those who are being sold on vaccination resistance are not as safe as they think they are. I’m amazed at how frequently I hear about the odds of survival from someone who’s carrying around an extra 40 pounds of personally acquired vulnerability.

Vaccine mandates will save a lot of lives, and that has to be considered; even if a lot of those lives bullishly claim they would rather die than be saved. Freedom of choice is important, but we regulate public health & safety all the time, from seat belts to food handling & preparation. Your right to work as an unvaccinated airline pilot or walk into a Wal-Mart without a mask on is not equal to your right to vote or worship your god.

Politically, the argument can certainly be made against the president making such broad sweeping mandates, and the long-term implications of the same. I welcome that discussion. (Though I think the legality of vaccination requirements at the level of of schools & individual employers is pretty well established.)

Socially, there are a lot of potential backlash considerations to forcing this on people. The country is a powder-keg, & I’m not sure how much net good is accomplished by dragging people kicking & screaming into the vaccination line. In general, I prefer the slow road of public education- though many Americans are proving surprisingly resilient to its impact.

So it’s a nuanced discussion, but we’re not discussing the nuance. Your idea that no public benefit can justify even the smallest loss of freedom to the individual is as stupid as saying saving a single life life is worth the loss of allour freedoms. Those are just the poles of the argument we would be having in a healthy society.

 

You’re either equating your comfort with freedom or someone else’s freedom with comfort- you can’t have it both ways. There is no truly free society- we all give up some amount of personal freedom for the functioning of a healthy & safe community. (Social Contract Theory.) Each of our personal freedoms exist only to the extent they don’t place undue burden on those around us or society at large. Yes, there’s a greater discussion to be had on this specific point, but in general, your perception of being a free actor is not the ultimate factor in how our conflicting interests are balanced.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/JoePCunningham/status/1437244188282793985

What the Major F_____??

 

America just retook first place in G7 Vaccine Freedom Challenge! Congrats to those that circulated some many non deep state arguments on this thread. USA USA USA!!!

 

I totally get what you’re saying. I think the main issue though is what these mandates lead to. If it was as simple as public safety I could agree with you. The goalposts have been moved so many times over the last year and a half that I can’t keep count. If these mandates go through I’m relatively certain the goalposts will be moved another 5-10 times before covid is in the rear view mirror even if we become the most vaccinated country on earth. Next year you’ll have the 4th booster shot people telling the 3rd boosters we can’t get back to normal until they stop killing people.

2 years ago, everyone both right and left would have thought such restrictions would only happen in North Korea or China. Now we have enough people that think, “yea, this is a good idea.” Again, this isn’t over. The goalposts will continue to move no matter how many people get vaccinated.

I also don’t think the “broad census” is as clear as you think it is. There are tons of doctors that like the vaccines, but don’t think they should be mandated. A lot of them don’t even think most people under 60 should get the shot unless they’re vulnerable including one of the earliest creators of mRNA vaccines. Even on CNN, Dr. Fauci was asked why people with natural immunity from previous infections need to get a vaccine. His answer was, “that’s an interesting question. I don’t really have a good answer for you”.

This is clearly not based on science. If it was, previous infections wouldn’t need the vaccine as Dr. Fauci indirectly alludes to. Kids wouldnt be wearing masks in school like they’re not wearing them in almost every other country in the world. My guess is either Joey Bribes isn’t actually looking at the science, or he knows the drug companies will lose out on millions of people that had previous infections, and millions of kids that will soon be eligible in the coming months. All three are probably true. Not to mention Congress and their staff are exempt from the mandates.