Tumi 3.0
12-06-2022 | 04:14 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 311
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WASHINGTON, Dec 6 (Reuters) - United Airlines (UAL.O) Chief Executive Scott Kirby said a tentative contract agreement between rival Delta Air Lines (DAL.N) and its pilots union would set an industry pattern.
"It's a rich contract but I think the really good news is it means we'll all get deals done essentially on the same terms and can move forward," Kirby told Reuters on the sidelines of an event in Washington late Monday. Delta struck a tentative deal Friday to give pilots a 34% cumulative pay increase in a new four-year contract.
Kirby says the Delta agreement will push pilot wages up across carriers and be passed onto consumers in the form of higher airplane ticket prices.
"The biggest news for an investor perspective is cost convergence in the industry means that what is different now is all the low cost carriers are going to have come up to these much higher pay rates," Kirby said. "This is going to wind up like oil prices -- it's going to be a pass through."
Kirby said demand is still strong for airplane tickets, which he noted are cheaper today than over the last 15 years.
"Prices are still in historical terms 40-50% lower in real terms," Kirby said. "They are going to go up but it's still going to be the best value of your travel," he said, comparing flights to hikes in hotels, rental cars and theme park tickets.
Delta's contract offer also includes a lump-sum one-time payment, reduced health insurance premiums, and improvements in holiday pay, vacation, company contributions to 401(k) and work rules.
Its union estimates the proposed deal represents more than $7.2 billion of cumulative value increases over the next four years.
American Airlines (AAL.O) and United have promised "industry-leading" contracts to their pilots.
Last month, American pilots rejected a proposed 19% pay hike over two years that would have cost the Texas-based carrier about $2 billion. Similarly, United pilots turned down an offer that included more than 14.5% cumulative wage increases and enhanced overtime and training pay.
Reporting by David Shepardson; Editing by Alex Richardson and Chizu Nomiyama
"It's a rich contract but I think the really good news is it means we'll all get deals done essentially on the same terms and can move forward," Kirby told Reuters on the sidelines of an event in Washington late Monday. Delta struck a tentative deal Friday to give pilots a 34% cumulative pay increase in a new four-year contract.
Kirby says the Delta agreement will push pilot wages up across carriers and be passed onto consumers in the form of higher airplane ticket prices.
"The biggest news for an investor perspective is cost convergence in the industry means that what is different now is all the low cost carriers are going to have come up to these much higher pay rates," Kirby said. "This is going to wind up like oil prices -- it's going to be a pass through."
Kirby said demand is still strong for airplane tickets, which he noted are cheaper today than over the last 15 years.
"Prices are still in historical terms 40-50% lower in real terms," Kirby said. "They are going to go up but it's still going to be the best value of your travel," he said, comparing flights to hikes in hotels, rental cars and theme park tickets.
Delta's contract offer also includes a lump-sum one-time payment, reduced health insurance premiums, and improvements in holiday pay, vacation, company contributions to 401(k) and work rules.
Its union estimates the proposed deal represents more than $7.2 billion of cumulative value increases over the next four years.
American Airlines (AAL.O) and United have promised "industry-leading" contracts to their pilots.
Last month, American pilots rejected a proposed 19% pay hike over two years that would have cost the Texas-based carrier about $2 billion. Similarly, United pilots turned down an offer that included more than 14.5% cumulative wage increases and enhanced overtime and training pay.
Reporting by David Shepardson; Editing by Alex Richardson and Chizu Nomiyama
12-06-2022 | 04:19 AM
#23
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,448
Likes: 6
Well, I know I deserve a dinner and a date with Gisele Bündchen. When my friend tells me he thinks she's pretty hot too...I go..."Yea, we deserve some of that". When she actually goes out with my friend, I am happy for him(because he deserved it) and am more hopeful for my chances because she has proven that she will go out with mere mortals. Now, all I have to do is ask her out. It is a virtual lock that I too, will get what I deserve.
Life is a process. We continue to get calls for polling from UNHC about expectations etc More information is better especially since you have new studs in your stable after letting the gelding out to pasture.
The Delta TA is tangible, factual and a huge step up from the only other carrier to raise the bar(Alaska)
I would gladly spend 20 minutes filling out a survey that affects possibly the next 4-7 years of my work life, especially after a major puzzle piece just dropped. Namely, not what do I feel I deserve....but what has another legacy mgt team proven that they are willing pay.
Feelings vs. Facts...it's your call
Life is a process. We continue to get calls for polling from UNHC about expectations etc More information is better especially since you have new studs in your stable after letting the gelding out to pasture.
The Delta TA is tangible, factual and a huge step up from the only other carrier to raise the bar(Alaska)
I would gladly spend 20 minutes filling out a survey that affects possibly the next 4-7 years of my work life, especially after a major puzzle piece just dropped. Namely, not what do I feel I deserve....but what has another legacy mgt team proven that they are willing pay.
Feelings vs. Facts...it's your call
12-06-2022 | 08:01 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,633
Likes: 209
Another Delta guy here… I also think this time is different. There is something tangible to reference, the Delta AIP. It isn’t the end all, but it’s the dye that will be used to pattern bargain with for United and American.
If I were on the United MEC, I wouldn’t need to know whether the United pilots would vote in favor of Delta’s contractual value. That’s a given and largely will capped at that value plus some marginal gain. What I would need to know is if a choice between compensation and “QOL” must be made at some point, which one should the money go to? Which QOL items absolutely have to be improved? I would hope the survey would address that question. Also, I would hope that survey would explore the question of time and perceived risk going forward. That is a very real and legitimate concern with some, and zero concern for others. I can only say that regardless of how people perceive time risk, I would hope there would be a desire to get the deal done in an expedited manner.
If I were on the United MEC, I wouldn’t need to know whether the United pilots would vote in favor of Delta’s contractual value. That’s a given and largely will capped at that value plus some marginal gain. What I would need to know is if a choice between compensation and “QOL” must be made at some point, which one should the money go to? Which QOL items absolutely have to be improved? I would hope the survey would address that question. Also, I would hope that survey would explore the question of time and perceived risk going forward. That is a very real and legitimate concern with some, and zero concern for others. I can only say that regardless of how people perceive time risk, I would hope there would be a desire to get the deal done in an expedited manner.
12-06-2022 | 04:40 PM
#28
Line Holder
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
From: Often a desk sometimes a jet
Originally Posted by RaginCajun;[url=tel:3544880
3544880[/url]]WASHINGTON, Dec 6 (Reuters) - United Airlines (UAL.O) Chief Executive Scott Kirby said a tentative contract agreement between rival Delta Air Lines (DAL.N) and its pilots union would set an industry pattern.
"It's a rich contract but I think the really good news is it means we'll all get deals done essentially on the same terms and can move forward," Kirby told Reuters on the sidelines of an event in Washington late Monday. Delta struck a tentative deal Friday to give pilots a 34% cumulative pay increase in a new four-year contract.
Kirby says the Delta agreement will push pilot wages up across carriers and be passed onto consumers in the form of higher airplane ticket prices.
"The biggest news for an investor perspective is cost convergence in the industry means that what is different now is all the low cost carriers are going to have come up to these much higher pay rates," Kirby said. "This is going to wind up like oil prices -- it's going to be a pass through."
Kirby said demand is still strong for airplane tickets, which he noted are cheaper today than over the last 15 years.
"Prices are still in historical terms 40-50% lower in real terms," Kirby said. "They are going to go up but it's still going to be the best value of your travel," he said, comparing flights to hikes in hotels, rental cars and theme park tickets.
Delta's contract offer also includes a lump-sum one-time payment, reduced health insurance premiums, and improvements in holiday pay, vacation, company contributions to 401(k) and work rules.
Its union estimates the proposed deal represents more than $7.2 billion of cumulative value increases over the next four years.
American Airlines (AAL.O) and United have promised "industry-leading" contracts to their pilots.
Last month, American pilots rejected a proposed 19% pay hike over two years that would have cost the Texas-based carrier about $2 billion. Similarly, United pilots turned down an offer that included more than 14.5% cumulative wage increases and enhanced overtime and training pay.
Reporting by David Shepardson; Editing by Alex Richardson and Chizu Nomiyama
"It's a rich contract but I think the really good news is it means we'll all get deals done essentially on the same terms and can move forward," Kirby told Reuters on the sidelines of an event in Washington late Monday. Delta struck a tentative deal Friday to give pilots a 34% cumulative pay increase in a new four-year contract.
Kirby says the Delta agreement will push pilot wages up across carriers and be passed onto consumers in the form of higher airplane ticket prices.
"The biggest news for an investor perspective is cost convergence in the industry means that what is different now is all the low cost carriers are going to have come up to these much higher pay rates," Kirby said. "This is going to wind up like oil prices -- it's going to be a pass through."
Kirby said demand is still strong for airplane tickets, which he noted are cheaper today than over the last 15 years.
"Prices are still in historical terms 40-50% lower in real terms," Kirby said. "They are going to go up but it's still going to be the best value of your travel," he said, comparing flights to hikes in hotels, rental cars and theme park tickets.
Delta's contract offer also includes a lump-sum one-time payment, reduced health insurance premiums, and improvements in holiday pay, vacation, company contributions to 401(k) and work rules.
Its union estimates the proposed deal represents more than $7.2 billion of cumulative value increases over the next four years.
American Airlines (AAL.O) and United have promised "industry-leading" contracts to their pilots.
Last month, American pilots rejected a proposed 19% pay hike over two years that would have cost the Texas-based carrier about $2 billion. Similarly, United pilots turned down an offer that included more than 14.5% cumulative wage increases and enhanced overtime and training pay.
Reporting by David Shepardson; Editing by Alex Richardson and Chizu Nomiyama
12-08-2022 | 06:14 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
So if you were on the negotiating committee, and/or MH, you have three options.
Option 1: Strive to match some of the areas the Delta AIP and choose which ones you think are not realistic, perhaps their sick time structure, etc.
Option 2: match the delta AiP, which realistically means going slightly over in some areas and slightly short in others.
Option 3: match the Delta AIP, and exceed it in some areas.
I think the tricky part is, that let’s say one of our highest priorities was increasing our LTD. Once LTD‘s hits a certain point, it’s not like we wanna keep pushing it higher. I don’t think most of us realistically would want to waste bargaining capital creating an LTD Scheme that would actually having us paid more than what we make currently. Most of us would be fine capping it at what we make, with some modest increase for a future earnings. So, if this was your number one priority, previously, but now by matching the Delta AIP it would be fixed, where do you turn your attention? Do you prefer to improve our sick time structure, increase vacation pay? Increase hourly rates? Reduce average line value?
Bottom line, it is absolutely relevant to reassess what our priorities are now that we know what the contract we are bargaining off looks like. I get this is a place to vent frustrations, but the “I’m smart everyone else is stupid” vibe that is becoming pervasive on here is a little bit yucky. For any non-united pilots looking in, fortunately most of our line pilots are very reasonable… The vocal contingent on here sure paints a strange picture of the pilot group.
Option 1: Strive to match some of the areas the Delta AIP and choose which ones you think are not realistic, perhaps their sick time structure, etc.
Option 2: match the delta AiP, which realistically means going slightly over in some areas and slightly short in others.
Option 3: match the Delta AIP, and exceed it in some areas.
I think the tricky part is, that let’s say one of our highest priorities was increasing our LTD. Once LTD‘s hits a certain point, it’s not like we wanna keep pushing it higher. I don’t think most of us realistically would want to waste bargaining capital creating an LTD Scheme that would actually having us paid more than what we make currently. Most of us would be fine capping it at what we make, with some modest increase for a future earnings. So, if this was your number one priority, previously, but now by matching the Delta AIP it would be fixed, where do you turn your attention? Do you prefer to improve our sick time structure, increase vacation pay? Increase hourly rates? Reduce average line value?
Bottom line, it is absolutely relevant to reassess what our priorities are now that we know what the contract we are bargaining off looks like. I get this is a place to vent frustrations, but the “I’m smart everyone else is stupid” vibe that is becoming pervasive on here is a little bit yucky. For any non-united pilots looking in, fortunately most of our line pilots are very reasonable… The vocal contingent on here sure paints a strange picture of the pilot group.
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