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02-24-2023 | 06:33 AM

#21

sailingfun

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DWC CAP10 USAF

Delta vote isn’t over…it could still be voted down if people didn’t like what EB said.

If you look at forum posts from a year ago at Delta the TA will fail big. Many Delta pilots stated they would never vote for a TA without full retro and retirement restoration. The opener was for about 3.5 billion a year in improvements for a total of 10.5 billion over the proposed 3 year contract. What was achieved was 760 million for the first 3 years. Time has however worked it’s magic and the TA will pass easily. Guys who had long lists of third rail items they had to have for a yes vote are stepping all over themselves to explain away why those items are no longer important.
The Delta debacle hammers home why setting reasonable goals and getting contracts done on a timely basis provides far greater improvements than shooting for the moon.

02-24-2023 | 07:16 AM

#22

Giordano Bruno

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun

The Delta debacle hammers home why setting reasonable goals and getting contracts done on a timely basis provides far greater improvements than shooting for the moon.

Lol. this guy never misses a chance to absolve Delta management of all responsibility, and blame the extended negotiating timeline on his greedy colleagues.
"reasonable goals" (i.e., expectation management) would have resulted in far lower results. How can someone who has been around this long no understand that?
Or maybe DALPA should have taken what was on the table when covid hit...a $28 million dollar increase in the contract's value.
DO NOT listen to this guy

02-24-2023 | 07:55 AM

#23

sailingfun

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Giordano Bruno

As you know the 28 million was on the 5 closed sections of the contract and represented a substantial increase in those sections. We are talking about sections like witnesses and representation, seniority ect.. If you don’t understand that you have not followed the negotiating process at all. We had not even talked about money sections.

02-24-2023 | 07:58 AM

#24

DWC CAP10 USAF

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From: Looking left

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giordano Bruno

To be fair, and so the UAL readers will have the real story, back in Dec 2019, the company offer was NOT for $28M. That number was the value of the few small sections that had been AIP'd up to that point. More than half of the sections were still open and a few (like section 3 pay rates) had just been exchanged.

02-24-2023 | 10:24 AM

#25

gzsg

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cramje

United Airlines Holdings Inc annual net income for 2022 was $0.737B. DAL's TA is a $2.0B increase annually in book value - how would a hypothetical $2.5 B increase in UAL Pilot Contract book
value not make a dent in United massive profit? It doesn't just make a dent, it consumes most or all projected net income for next 3 years. Which may be the cost of doing business for SK (and is fine with me) - but
to categorize DAL's ask as trivial to bottom line at UAL is the reason why the First Amendment rocks!

This is the perfect post to summarizing how clueless some pilots are.

Pilot costs are an expense.

The do not reduce profits dollar for dollar.

Take a moment to think. Delta agreed to our TA and they are going to make $5 billion or more in 2023. And over $8 billion in 2024.

The bright light here is we didn’t get enough but our profit sharing will ease the pain.

In my opinion our profit sharing in 2023 will equal over 20% of our pay and 26% in 2024.

02-24-2023 | 11:02 AM

#26

Giordano Bruno

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If the asks by DALPA were "unreasonable," the mediator would have suspended negotiations. That didn't happen.

02-24-2023 | 01:00 PM

#27

Viper25

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Giordano Bruno

If the asks by DALPA were "unreasonable," the mediator would have suspended negotiations. That didn't happen.

If DALPA rejected the company’s supposal, then the mediator would have found DALPA’s ask unreasonable and suspended negotiations. That is exactly what the mediator said.

02-24-2023 | 01:19 PM

#28

hummingbear

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixty N Two

SK is already on the record as basically saying customer ticket costs due to inflation will cover our next contract or the increases in our next contract is probably more accurate

They already are. As of this past holiday season, airfare was up around 25% over 2019 rates. Customers have been paying our raises for a while now- we’re just not getting them. 25% DOS wouldn’t cost the company a dime over their 2019 cost structure.

02-24-2023 | 01:34 PM

#29

JayAitch

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Quote:

Originally Posted by LJ Driver

I actually love flying the 737, but sure sign me up for premium please!

Do you have trouble getting a medical or do you just not admit this in front of your AME?

02-24-2023 | 02:00 PM

#30

Giordano Bruno

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Viper25

If DALPA rejected the company’s supposal, then the mediator would have found DALPA’s ask unreasonable and suspended negotiations. That is exactly what the mediator said.

Did she say that? She said mediated negotiations would be suspended, right? But there was nothing in DALPA's ask that caused her to declare it unreasonable throughout the entire mediation process. I think there were two negotiating sessions every other week. That's hardly a schedule set by a mediator who thinks the union is "unreasonable."

And there was nothing precluding DALPA and mgmt engaging outside of mediation after the mediator left town. DALPA appears to have underestimated the degree to which mgmt wanted a deal done. Lessons hopefully UALPA will learn without repeating.