Well, that would take care of the utter stagnation in the upper percentages of widebody right seat and a decent number of narrowbody right seat for lifers.

 

Bingo. You live/die/get violated as a crew. If you lack the capacity to be a captain you also lack the capacity to be a good FO imo. Not to say those that stay FO’s by choice couldn’t be good captains, but those that stay FO’s because they don’t think they’re capable of being captains are probably not great FO’s either.

 

you’d be surprised at how many regional pilots are starting to show up with ZERO pic time. Trend seems to be FO at non-United regional. 2200ish TT. No pic time. Hired at U. Or FO at non-United regional. Short 4-6 months at FrontRear, Spirit, Sun Country, etc. Hired at U. Listing CFI time as pic to check the box.

 

So when does this forced upgrade come into play ? On day 1 of nh class and at that time only or at anytime when the requirements can be filled?

 

It's only during indoc, and it's only "forced" if select conditions are met. A way to think of it: Once all the conditions are met for the company to be able to offer the CA awards to a new hire class, then, within that class, someone who meets all the requirements would also have to ONLY have the CA award left as their available choice. So, to keep it simple, if the #2 person in class is the only person who meets all the FAR requirements, and the company offers 1 CA award, that #2 person could still pick an FO spot since there would be numerous ones available. If there's 30 people in a class, the only way to "force" the #2 person into a CA spot would be to have 49 CA awards, which makes no sense, because there wouldn't be 48 others to take the rest of the awards. A "forced" award would be if it got down toward the bottom of the class seniority list, the CA award is still available, and the last person meets all the FAR requirements. The 8 ball, who is qualified under FAR 121.436, is last to pick, and the only pick left is a CA spot, then, yes, that person could be "forced" into that CA spot.

Here's a rundown I put together of how this process goes.New Hire Captain/Probationary CA award
For a New Hire to be offered a Captain position:

1. No pilots can be on furlough 8-C-8
   
2. The company must lift all bidding freezes 8-D-6
   
3. CA vacancies must be tied to forecasted block hour needs in category. 8-C-8a
   
4. The new hire pilot must meet FAR 121.436 requirements (notably, 1000 hrs of Part 121, or creditable time; eg 500 military multi-engine, multi-crew PIC or 500 PIC Part 135.243).8-C-8-b
   
5. New hire with CA assignment will fly as FO in that equipment and base (can change bases via lateral bid). 8-F-12
   
6. Pilot will be advised of which method they will be trained (see below)
   
7. Accelerated pilot must go to enhanced CA upgrade training 9-k-2
   
8. Must complete 100 hours of CA OE with an LCP and have a minimum of 450 hours at United. 9-K-3
   
9. Additional line checks added (in total, line checks will be at months 6, 9, 18, 24) 9-K-4
   
10. Accelerated Pilot cannot start CA training prior to a non-probationary pilot on the same equipment. 8-F-12-g
    
11. The pilot may elect to not keep the CA vacancy if a subsequent vacancy has no unfilled positions (secondary vacancies are not allowed) 8-D-1-e-(3)-(a); 8-D-1-e-(3)-(d)
    

9-k-1 - “Accelerated pilot”

1. Complete probationary CQ event as FO
   
2. Complete 350 hours as FO in that equipment
   
3. Not have had any short cycles or be the subject of a Probationary Review Panel during their initial New Hire training or continuing qualification training.
   
4. Equipment freeze (25 months) starts once reaching these mins.
   

8-i-1-(a) - Must have 500 hours and complete probation

1. Freeze (24 months) starts on award date.
   

 

Why 2 years I thought flow to diff bases was still possible

 

you can lateral to another domicile (SFO to DCA for example)if your seniority can hold it on a lateral/vacancy bid while still in the right seat. If a lateral or vacancy bid is available to another domicile (DCA for example) for CA you can also be awarded that… but if you aren’t able to lateral to the other domicile (no DCA CA bids) before CA upgrade completed you will revert back to the original CA award domicile (SFO for example). I think this is the correct way it would play out worst case.

 

No one really knows, but if they have to enact that provision after Aug 24, it could be very likely that the growth in IAH/ORD to accommodate the unfilled vacancies will slow or stop to balance out the allocations.

 

So ok

1. This only applies to new hires in indoc. Basically day 1
2. This somehow doesn't apply to any other change of position or base.
3. What is the reference to aug 24th ? Is that 2024 when this would begin ?

Thanks for the help !

 

This. What’s to prevent majority of future nbca vacancies in coastal bases to rebalance after last 2 years of growth in IAH/ORD/DEN/CLE to fill nbca. Then we’re back to unfilled nbca only in SFO/LAX/IAD/EWR and the seats get filled with new hire captains in the coastal bases the company wants staffed.