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Originally Posted by Boeing Aviator
(Post 4022394)
It wasn't the 70’s. United bought PanAm’s Pacific operation in 1985 and Delta bought the Atlantic in 1991.
What you’re referring to above referencing the A220 is exactly what occurred with Pan Am in Delta’s Atlantic acquisition. By far, the most senior airplane at PanAm was the 747. The A310 was relatively junior and there weren’t that many 727’s and it was the most junior airplane. Other than the 30 pilots referred to in a previous post above (that nearly instantaneously re qualified on the 727 off of the 747). The vast majority of PanAm pilots they went to Delta in the acquisition were relatively junior. |
Originally Posted by 11atsomto
(Post 4022400)
Certainly an acquisition of JetBlue is possible, a partial acquisition of one of their fleets and a part of their pilot groups is significantly less so.
Agreed. |
Originally Posted by FriendlyPilot
(Post 4022326)
Its not relevant. United is not a party to the CBA between Jetblue and the Jetblue pilots, so United doesn't have to honor it. It’s generally a meaningless clause.
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Originally Posted by 11atsomto
(Post 4022400)
It seems you are very familiar with the nuances......notwithstanding the more recent one still is over 30 years ago. A lot of mergers and acquisitions have taken place since then as such more recent precedents have been set. Certainly an acquisition of JetBlue is possible, a partial acquisition of one of their fleets and a part of their pilot groups is significantly less so.
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Originally Posted by sl0wr0ll3r
(Post 4022412)
You are mistaken.
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Originally Posted by FriendlyPilot
(Post 4022327)
United took the Hawaii 747 pilots and integrated them Date of Hire. There were not that many of them and they were fenced on the 747s and replaced with United pilots as they retired. I think they were all gone by the late 90s. It was worth it because United pilots could be based in Honolulu almost immediately.
Pan Am 747s and L-1011s came to UAL with this purchase. Bob Crandall, American's CEO at the time, was approached before United, but turned it down. He later said it was one of his biggest mistakes. As I recall the announcement of the acquisition occurred either just before or during the 30-day cooling off period prior to the 1985 pilot strike. |
Originally Posted by fireman0174
(Post 4022447)
430 pilots came over from Pan Am in the 1985 Pacific acquisition by United. 426 of them were senior to me so I dropped back on the seniority list by that number. Seniority integration by date-of-hire. Still, it was the best thing for the UAL group as it opened up flying we never would have seen.
Pan Am 747s and L-1011s came to UAL with this purchase. Bob Crandall, American's CEO at the time, was approached before United, but turned it down. He later said it was one of his biggest mistakes. As I recall the announcement of the acquisition occurred either just before or during the 30-day cooling off period prior to the 1985 pilot strike. https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Landing-...s%2C214&sr=8-1 |
Originally Posted by tmtbiker
(Post 4022358)
Hold on a sec Friendly. You're comparing apples and potatoes. Some on the thread are discussing the purchase of all or part of a struggling airline. You're referring to airplanes that were coming off lease at SWA and were for sale outright by a leasing company. The leasing company was selling them, why would pilots be involved? I'm not sure how your statement proves anything.
Those airplanes never actually entered the fleet anyway. |
Originally Posted by VacancyBid
(Post 4022052)
Could United buy JB's 220 operation?
Assume some suitor wants JB but not all of it. Could United buy the 220 operation? 220 rated pilots come to United. Rest go to Alaska or whoever. FA's I guess would just have to bid. Probably would get a chunk of JFK slots also. Advantages 1) United gets SNB with increased regional scope 2) Doesn't trigger Bond-McCaskill 3) Fencing is simpler with no type overlap between UAL and JB crews 4) less anti-trust concern 5) United throws cash at the big deal, making it easier to deal with debt/acquisition costs I think there's some precedent here with PanAm. Not quite sure of the details. |
Originally Posted by Hedley
(Post 4022750)
. Any type of merger would also take years and if UA wanted 220’s they could simply order them and get them configured from the factory and avoid the expense, time, and mess..
but just acquiring the planes & pilots would -not- be a big messy systems integration. All the things kirby (rightly) identifies as merger problems don’t apply. |
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