ua/co sen. list
08-02-2010 | 05:42 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 238
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I don't see how DL/NW or USair/AWA set the stage for this integration. They were both under the old ALPA merger policy.
We have a new policy that is quite a bit different. The arbitrator will be tasked to merge the lists using the new rules. LOS is a new factor and there is no telling how much or little the arbitrator will use LOS in building the list.
DOH was not a realistic proposal under the old rules and it hurt one or maybe two different pilot groups by starting there. But with LOS one of 3 guideposts that can be used to merge the lists, DOH is now a valid starting point.
Capt Hook
We have a new policy that is quite a bit different. The arbitrator will be tasked to merge the lists using the new rules. LOS is a new factor and there is no telling how much or little the arbitrator will use LOS in building the list.
DOH was not a realistic proposal under the old rules and it hurt one or maybe two different pilot groups by starting there. But with LOS one of 3 guideposts that can be used to merge the lists, DOH is now a valid starting point.
Capt Hook
08-02-2010 | 06:01 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
I don't see how DL/NW or USair/AWA set the stage for this integration. They were both under the old ALPA merger policy.
We have a new policy that is quite a bit different. The arbitrator will be tasked to merge the lists using the new rules. LOS is a new factor and there is no telling how much or little the arbitrator will use LOS in building the list.
DOH was not a realistic proposal under the old rules and it hurt one or maybe two different pilot groups by starting there. But with LOS one of 3 guideposts that can be used to merge the lists, DOH is now a valid starting point.
Capt Hook
We have a new policy that is quite a bit different. The arbitrator will be tasked to merge the lists using the new rules. LOS is a new factor and there is no telling how much or little the arbitrator will use LOS in building the list.
DOH was not a realistic proposal under the old rules and it hurt one or maybe two different pilot groups by starting there. But with LOS one of 3 guideposts that can be used to merge the lists, DOH is now a valid starting point.
Capt Hook
You are absolutely correct!
What will be interesting is if the new JCBA gives LOS for furlough time that "might" change the picture a little.
By setting DL "setting the stage" I meant their ruling came down as something along the lines of relative seniority (somebody correct me if I'm a little off here).
Frats-
kc135driver
08-02-2010 | 08:20 AM
#33
Smells like teen spirit
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
From: Mil and Civ
Capt Hook -
You are absolutely correct!
What will be interesting is if the new JCBA gives LOS for furlough time that "might" change the picture a little.
By setting DL "setting the stage" I meant their ruling came down as something along the lines of relative seniority (somebody correct me if I'm a little off here).
Frats-
kc135driver
You are absolutely correct!
What will be interesting is if the new JCBA gives LOS for furlough time that "might" change the picture a little.
By setting DL "setting the stage" I meant their ruling came down as something along the lines of relative seniority (somebody correct me if I'm a little off here).
Frats-
kc135driver
BTW - I've got some great wooded land for you in central AZ.
Enjoy flying the KC-135. I'll say howdy next time I need some gas from you...that is, if you can get a second to put down your cheeseburger and key the mic.
08-02-2010 | 10:49 AM
#35
Ben Salley
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 924
Likes: 0
From: Left
I hope you guys get LOS for furlough, but I'm sure you know that will be used for pay purposes & maybe pass riding.
Mathematically, for SLI purposes, "Active LOS" + "Furloughed LOS" = what?
It equals "DOH".
You can't just "magic wand" active years into your LOS and come back to DOH, but nice try. Not original though. Captain Brucia heard all of these schemes back during AAA/AWA. Good luck and I honestly look forward to you guys on property. Godspeed!
08-03-2010 | 06:02 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
I hope you guys get LOS for furlough, but I'm sure you know that will be used for pay purposes & maybe pass riding.
Mathematically, for SLI purposes, "Active LOS" + "Furloughed LOS" = what?
It equals "DOH".
You can't just "magic wand" active years into your LOS and come back to DOH, but nice try. Not original though. Captain Brucia heard all of these schemes back during AAA/AWA. Good luck and I honestly look forward to you guys on property. Godspeed!
Mathematically, for SLI purposes, "Active LOS" + "Furloughed LOS" = what?
It equals "DOH".
You can't just "magic wand" active years into your LOS and come back to DOH, but nice try. Not original though. Captain Brucia heard all of these schemes back during AAA/AWA. Good luck and I honestly look forward to you guys on property. Godspeed!
For the record, not advocating DOH here or in any merger of equals.
Longevity for pay for furlough time is a goal in the JCBA (at least on the UA side). Whether an arbitrator equates this to SLI LOS is a stretch. How they balance unadjusted LOS with status and career expectations is the million dollar question.
I would expect and can see this is a very sensitive issue for all of us.
08-03-2010 | 09:06 PM
#38
Recommend Retention
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,077
Likes: 0
From: Bigfoot
They seemed to hint on the conference call today that it was most likely going to play out as relative seniority for all active pilots followed by all furloughs at the bottom. This would probably mean all CAL furloughs below UAL furloughs. Of course, this could change due to recalls and if the snapshot date hasn't passed yet. They also were quick to add that the 'snapshot' has either not been taken or that if the date has passed, that the specific date has not been determined yet. Don't shoot the messenger, that's just how I interpreted it. The reality is, it's all out of our hands anyway. Again, it's a good thing we're doing the JCBA first.
08-04-2010 | 05:59 AM
#39
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,086
Likes: 0
From: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
I was able to listen to the conference call as well. I missed the first 15-20 minutes, but none-the-less, was able to listen to most of it.
There was a lot of good info spoken about in the call, but the SLI info that you spoke of is strictly 'speculation' on anyone's part....even if it came from JP's mouth during the call.
"Jimmy B" (AKA Capt Brucia) said it best back in late May at the Town-Hall (& paraphrasing).....The pilot group(s) will hear very little from the Merger Comm. from that point forward. ANYTHING can happen in the process, especially is/when arbitration takes place.
"135" stated the obvious, the topic is a sensitive issue.....respect. It's been said several times, the 'Average Joe Line Pilot' has NO control over the SLI outcome. Worry about what you can control, your simple Yes/No vote on the JCBA at hand.
There was a lot of good info spoken about in the call, but the SLI info that you spoke of is strictly 'speculation' on anyone's part....even if it came from JP's mouth during the call.
"Jimmy B" (AKA Capt Brucia) said it best back in late May at the Town-Hall (& paraphrasing).....The pilot group(s) will hear very little from the Merger Comm. from that point forward. ANYTHING can happen in the process, especially is/when arbitration takes place.
"135" stated the obvious, the topic is a sensitive issue.....respect. It's been said several times, the 'Average Joe Line Pilot' has NO control over the SLI outcome. Worry about what you can control, your simple Yes/No vote on the JCBA at hand.
08-04-2010 | 07:15 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: Cap. 737
Certainly not going to kill the messenger. Just curious what the seniority of the most junior person active person at CAL is, guessing it's two to three years????? So CAL's MEC is speculating that people on furlough at UAL with 11 years DOH and 8 years on property will be stapled behind those with just a few years? Wish I could say I was shocked but nothing seems to anymore. I realize it's out of our hands, I had just hoped it would be approached with some sense of fairness. No question that a good JCBA is crucial, but I'm just sayin'..........
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