ua/co sen. list
07-27-2010 | 07:37 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,750
Likes: 0
From: 737 CA
The news is.....United Airlines is going to be the largest airline in the world!! With a cash balance bigger than Dallas and some shiney 787s for all. 
You have yourself a nice day there Chris.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ma...ines-news.html
You have yourself a nice day there Chris.http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ma...ines-news.html
07-30-2010 | 01:49 PM
#4
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 534
Likes: 15
From: 18%er but I’ll enforce UPA23 to the last period.
The news is don't worry about the SLI until as a group we have secured ourselves an industry leading JCBA complete with QOL rules, SCOPE, retirement, and pay rates.
07-30-2010 | 06:33 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,130
Likes: 0
From: B737 CAPT IAH
SCOPE is king and cannot be traded away for upper seniority perks forever....guess I was right.
While not a B scale, the lower side of the seniority list cannot continue to pay for disproportionate pay increases for the upper half of the seniority list.....I am right and we'll see.
Lee
07-31-2010 | 06:48 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 791
Likes: 0
Publish the list!
It's interesting how quickly a few have jumped in to shout "JCBA first!"
Always being the contrarian when other pilots tell me what I should think (rather than points I should consider), I subscribe to the idea that most of the seniority list decisions have been made by now.
You can rest assured that the CAL team, under the leadership of Captain Brucia, has made some strong arguments for years of service. Brucia, who wrote, "...where I differ with my fellow members of the Board is in the area of credit that should be given to a pilot based on date of hire and the pilot's resulting length of service", will cause a bit of a dilemma for the junior CAL pilots.
Conversely, the comparatively inexperienced UAL NC will bring a strong argument that the wide body slots are somehow worth "more" or need to be fenced. They will also tend to want to dampen the effect of note e., and amplify point c, the portions of ALPA's new merger policy that mandates:
So? The list may not be completely finalized, but it is real close and will be sat on until a JCBA is announced. Why? Because national can't afford another decertification over SLI. The list will be bad news for someone. If that news is held until all the other cards are played first, the chances of ALPA national being able to ride through the resulting waves will be much better than if they announce SLI now and a grass roots decertification effort gets underway before anything else is done.
National and anyone that thinks they want to leave the cockpit for a job inside the beltway at national, will be quick to shout "JCBA first!" The painful lessons learned in the LCC disaster were a real wake up call and a big financial hit for ALPA staffers, particularly the legal staff. On the other hand, the administration of the Spirit strike was a huge success, so maybe we are beginning to see more responsible leadership. Unfortunately it took the loss of US airways as fellow ALPA members to bring about the change.
Always being the contrarian when other pilots tell me what I should think (rather than points I should consider), I subscribe to the idea that most of the seniority list decisions have been made by now.
You can rest assured that the CAL team, under the leadership of Captain Brucia, has made some strong arguments for years of service. Brucia, who wrote, "...where I differ with my fellow members of the Board is in the area of credit that should be given to a pilot based on date of hire and the pilot's resulting length of service", will cause a bit of a dilemma for the junior CAL pilots.
Conversely, the comparatively inexperienced UAL NC will bring a strong argument that the wide body slots are somehow worth "more" or need to be fenced. They will also tend to want to dampen the effect of note e., and amplify point c, the portions of ALPA's new merger policy that mandates:
a. Preserve jobs.
b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.
c. Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of living.
d. Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status.
e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.
b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.
c. Maintain or improve pre-merger pay and standard of living.
d. Maintain or improve pre-merger pilot status.
e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.
So? The list may not be completely finalized, but it is real close and will be sat on until a JCBA is announced. Why? Because national can't afford another decertification over SLI. The list will be bad news for someone. If that news is held until all the other cards are played first, the chances of ALPA national being able to ride through the resulting waves will be much better than if they announce SLI now and a grass roots decertification effort gets underway before anything else is done.
National and anyone that thinks they want to leave the cockpit for a job inside the beltway at national, will be quick to shout "JCBA first!" The painful lessons learned in the LCC disaster were a real wake up call and a big financial hit for ALPA staffers, particularly the legal staff. On the other hand, the administration of the Spirit strike was a huge success, so maybe we are beginning to see more responsible leadership. Unfortunately it took the loss of US airways as fellow ALPA members to bring about the change.
Last edited by Captain Bligh; 07-31-2010 at 07:28 AM.
07-31-2010 | 08:30 AM
#7
Widebody
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 777
Likes: 0
From: 777 CAP
The real fact
The seniority list will go to arbitration. Which means, by definition, after the JCBA is ratified.
Think about it: If it did not go to arbitration, and the final list made someone upset...(imagine that), who would that group of pilots blame? Their own merger committee/union for agreeing to it.
Even if, by some miracle, both sides agreed on a list, by going to arbitration, each side can say, "We tried our best", but in the end a neutral decided and we have to live with it. And the responsibility can be shifted, at least somewhat.
Think about it: If it did not go to arbitration, and the final list made someone upset...(imagine that), who would that group of pilots blame? Their own merger committee/union for agreeing to it.
Even if, by some miracle, both sides agreed on a list, by going to arbitration, each side can say, "We tried our best", but in the end a neutral decided and we have to live with it. And the responsibility can be shifted, at least somewhat.
07-31-2010 | 08:49 AM
#8
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 15
From: 737 CAPT
You can rest assured that the CAL team, under the leadership of Captain Brucia, has made some strong arguments for years of service. Brucia, who wrote, "...where I differ with my fellow members of the Board is in the area of credit that should be given to a pilot based on date of hire and the pilot's resulting length of service", will cause a bit of a dilemma for the junior CAL pilots.
But you forget to mention the context of that statement. Everything is different when explained in context.
Capt. Brucia was on the arbitration panel of the USAirways pilot seniority list integration. He had a problem with the fact that the USAirways EAST pilots who were recalled AFTER the merger was announced were put below America West pilots who were relatively new. They were for all intents and purposes treated as still furloughed while the SLI process was happening and not given credit for the fact that they had been flying before, were furloughed and had now been recalled before the list was finalized. So, his argument was that they should have been given different consideration and placed higher on the seniority list since they were recalled and back to work and not still furloughed.
07-31-2010 | 11:18 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 645
Likes: 0
The merger isn't expected to be completed until June of 2012, do you think that United will not have begun recalling pilots by then? At that time the same situation will be in play. The other interesting consideration is the large number of senior voluntary furloughs that United has. There were Airbus captains that took furloughs. Regardless of how you loook at it, this is a complicated situation.
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