Monkeyfly

Well, we all kind of knew/assumed about the Furloughees being recalled to the CAL side. But can you tell me why it was like pulling teeth just to get this relatively benign TPA? And why you have so much faith in airline management to all of a sudden have this done by Oct. 5? And whether you are willing to take my bet that it will not?

Tony Nelson

Thunder1,
Just semantics, but you don't accrue longevity if you bypass. If you bypass, you are still furloughed. Accept a recall and then go on military leave. You accrue longevity/seniority/B/C fund while on Mil leave.

contrail67

Try and get the merger through without a JCBA and then get the shareholders to agree to that....no way. That is why.

2wright

The shareholder's vote is scheduled for late September. So whether we get a JCBA at the end date of the ultra aggresive negotiating timeline in the Transition Agreement or not, the shareholder's vote will have already taken place.

Besides, the shareholder's vote will be controlled by the small group of stakeholders (managers of mutual funds, pension funds, large private equity, etc.). Do you really believe that management has not already had conversations with these individuals and sufficently addressed any concerns they may have had? IMO, you seem to placing a lot of faith in process that I consider to be a mere formality.

The only remote chance of this merger not going through will come from DOT/DOJ rejection. Of course, the only thing they care about is maintaining competition and the resultant low fares for consumers.

kc135driver

I'm not sure I'd hold my breath on a JCBA anytime soon. Mgmt gets paid regardless of whether we get a JCBA. Signing this TTA makes it appear to Wall Street as though we are on our way to fully integrating, but I think our contract expectations are quite a bit higher than DL/NW (and rightfully so, BTW). Makes it easy for mgmt to walk away and say we are being "unreasonable", after they have already gotten all of their shares and bonuses.

UAL mgmt in particular will not give up a dime for it's employees unless it somehow gets a dollar back. I've been living in this movie scene for far too long. Hope I'm wrong.

WS01

are you saying that us furloughees will come back at whatever year pay as if we were never furloughed ? (I think DAL got that in their joint contract)

oncea57cap

Well, it's easy for anyone to say now, "yeah I knew that too', but whatever. As for your other question, there are many reasons, but here is the most important. Normally, it is in managements' interest to delay a contract - for obvious reasons. Not in this case. In this case it may be best for us to wait a while. Here are the numbers. Conservative estimates of the net revenue synergy are 4 - 5 billion based on current economic conditions. If management gives the pilots a 25% rasie (not nearly enough or fair by any corporate metric) it is only 6% of that additional revenue. Now if you listen to top economists (not the talking head jackasses on CNBC) we are in a 1983 scenario - the beginning of a roaring economy (which, incidentally, management believes) then that additional revenue could be as much as double. If management waits and delays that would only cost them more as employees start to see the giant profits rolling in and demand more. So the JCBA will be complete unusually fast (that should raise red flags in and of itself), we'll get 25% and a stake in the new company, work rules will be restored, scope will be restored and management will laugh all the way to the bank. Fact!

scrapdog

From my understanding, you come back @ your last pay rate (i.e. a 2000 furloughee would come back to 10 year pay), but your seniority would be in the pecking order based on your recall.

scrapdog

UAL management is not running the show of the merged airline, CAL managment is. There are some UAL folks in management staffing, but CAL management is at the top. FYI

SKMarz

If you are talking about UAL furloughees, then it is the pay rate at which you left (for instance, a 99' hire would come back at 7th or 8th year pay-adjusted for furlough time, we didn't accrue seniority for pay while furloughed). We can bypass and still keep our seniority, we just wouldn't accrue it for pay purposes until we are back. Been there, got the t-shirt......