Realistic Recall for UAL 07/08 Hires
08-04-2010, 12:01 PM
#42
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 363
Originally Posted by pilotgolfer
Hey Sonny,
What is your guess to how something like this would be handled? I'm a 2007 new hire. Lets just assume that a certain percentage of the guys in your seniority range will defer from taking a slot at CAL until the SLI is done. If the recall gets down to me and I go work for CAL...how will it work if someone senior to me (who deferred going to CAL) changes his mind and subsequently takes a slot at CAL. Will that person be junior to me on the CAL list? Will I be bidding senior to that person until the SLI is sorted out and we go back to our merged seniority?
I'm just wondering if a junior UAL recall will keep getting pushed down the list as more and more senior UAL guys accept the offer to work at CAL.
What is your guess to how something like this would be handled? I'm a 2007 new hire. Lets just assume that a certain percentage of the guys in your seniority range will defer from taking a slot at CAL until the SLI is done. If the recall gets down to me and I go work for CAL...how will it work if someone senior to me (who deferred going to CAL) changes his mind and subsequently takes a slot at CAL. Will that person be junior to me on the CAL list? Will I be bidding senior to that person until the SLI is sorted out and we go back to our merged seniority?
I'm just wondering if a junior UAL recall will keep getting pushed down the list as more and more senior UAL guys accept the offer to work at CAL.
From reading over the LOA I believe you keep your relative spot within the UAL furloughee stack (ie, a more senior dude can go to CAL after you but he gets inserted before you at CAL). I don't have the language in front of me right now but will try to find a reference.
If this is the case it would actually cause them to go thru the list faster. During the last recall they were getting something like one out of 5 actually go back on the property (lots of ML leave but not an option here). I would think if CAL does start hiring, except for the few who live in a IAH domicile or are completely unemployed and don't mind commuting on reserve, they would go thru our list pretty fast.
We'll see.... hope everybody who needs a job gets one!
08-04-2010, 12:26 PM
#43
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 1,982
Originally Posted by kc135driver
pilotgolfer-
From reading over the LOA I believe you keep your relative spot within the UAL furloughee stack (ie, a more senior dude can go to CAL after you but he gets inserted before you at CAL). I don't have the language in front of me right now but will try to find a reference.
If this is the case it would actually cause them to go thru the list faster. During the last recall they were getting something like one out of 5 actually go back on the property (lots of ML leave but not an option here). I would think if CAL does start hiring, except for the few who live in a IAH domicile or are completely unemployed and don't mind commuting on reserve, they would go thru our list pretty fast.
We'll see.... hope everybody who needs a job gets one!
From reading over the LOA I believe you keep your relative spot within the UAL furloughee stack (ie, a more senior dude can go to CAL after you but he gets inserted before you at CAL). I don't have the language in front of me right now but will try to find a reference.
If this is the case it would actually cause them to go thru the list faster. During the last recall they were getting something like one out of 5 actually go back on the property (lots of ML leave but not an option here). I would think if CAL does start hiring, except for the few who live in a IAH domicile or are completely unemployed and don't mind commuting on reserve, they would go thru our list pretty fast.
We'll see.... hope everybody who needs a job gets one!
KC135,
I read it differently. I think we are going to be treated like new-hires at CAL. (minus the fact that we are paid at our UAL longevity, we get our insurance and benefits, etc.) I don't know how CAL does their seniority for new hires...but if its by age or some other method...will our relative UAL seniority even be considered within our new hire class? It would sort of be equivalent to how seniority was determined at Mesa or Skywest during the Jets for Jobs deal.
They spoke of returning to the CAL new hire rates if the merger falls apart. I assume the seniority on the CAL list will be first come, first served...up until the point that the SLI is complete. Then we would return to where ever we are on the combined list.
This might be something to consider if you are a senior UAL guy on the furlough list when trying to decide to take the CAL offer of employment.
08-04-2010, 12:43 PM
#44
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 363
pilotgolfer-
This is the section I was thinking of:
iii. Pilots employed pursuant to this Section 7-B will exercise seniority for all purposes at the employing Airline in the seniority order of their originating Airline but junior to all Pilots who were on the seniority list of the employing Airline prior to the Merger Agreement Date.
What do you think? I read it as a we go to CAL and are hired over there in UAL order, regardless of when we actually go there. Is there another section I missed?
Now if a senior furloughee goes over in the last class, then the merger falls apart will he still be senior to his UA counterparts?
This is the section I was thinking of:
iii. Pilots employed pursuant to this Section 7-B will exercise seniority for all purposes at the employing Airline in the seniority order of their originating Airline but junior to all Pilots who were on the seniority list of the employing Airline prior to the Merger Agreement Date.
What do you think? I read it as a we go to CAL and are hired over there in UAL order, regardless of when we actually go there. Is there another section I missed?
Now if a senior furloughee goes over in the last class, then the merger falls apart will he still be senior to his UA counterparts?
08-04-2010, 12:47 PM
#45
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 1,982
Sorry. After going back and re-reading the section, I found my own answer:
iii) Pilots employed pursuant to this Section 7-B will exercise seniority for all
purposes at the employing Airline in the seniority order of their originating
Airline but junior to all Pilots who were on the seniority list of the employing
Airline prior to the Merger Agreement Date. Upon implementation of the ISL
Pilots will exercise seniority pursuant to their position on the ISL. All Pilots hired
by the employing Airline after the Merger Agreement Date who are not Pilots
employed pursuant to this Section 7-B will exercise their seniority for all purposes
junior to all Pilots who were on either seniority list prior to the Merger Agreement
Date.
(iv) Notwithstanding Section 27, Part 2.A.2, B.2 or C.2 of the Continental CBA, all
Pilots on either the United Pilots’ or Continental Pilots’ Seniority List as of the
Effective Date of this Agreement employed by Continental shall be eligible for
Medical, Dental and Vision Plan coverage on the Pilot’s first day of Active Service.
KC135...looks like you found it a few minutes before me!!
iii) Pilots employed pursuant to this Section 7-B will exercise seniority for all
purposes at the employing Airline in the seniority order of their originating
Airline but junior to all Pilots who were on the seniority list of the employing
Airline prior to the Merger Agreement Date. Upon implementation of the ISL
Pilots will exercise seniority pursuant to their position on the ISL. All Pilots hired
by the employing Airline after the Merger Agreement Date who are not Pilots
employed pursuant to this Section 7-B will exercise their seniority for all purposes
junior to all Pilots who were on either seniority list prior to the Merger Agreement
Date.
(iv) Notwithstanding Section 27, Part 2.A.2, B.2 or C.2 of the Continental CBA, all
Pilots on either the United Pilots’ or Continental Pilots’ Seniority List as of the
Effective Date of this Agreement employed by Continental shall be eligible for
Medical, Dental and Vision Plan coverage on the Pilot’s first day of Active Service.
KC135...looks like you found it a few minutes before me!!
08-04-2010, 02:15 PM
#46
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Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: UAL FO
Posts: 122
can one (UAL furlough) bypass the CAL offer then decide a few month later to take it?
how would that work--
do they have to go down the list and offer a job at CAL to everyone before a bypass gets a 2nd offer or can one defer the CAL offer ofr a while then one day decide to take it, are they then placed in the next "new hire" class available?
how would that work--
do they have to go down the list and offer a job at CAL to everyone before a bypass gets a 2nd offer or can one defer the CAL offer ofr a while then one day decide to take it, are they then placed in the next "new hire" class available?
08-04-2010, 02:27 PM
#47
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 1,982
Originally Posted by WS01
can one (UAL furlough) bypass the CAL offer then decide a few month later to take it?
how would that work--
do they have to go down the list and offer a job at CAL to everyone before a bypass gets a 2nd offer or can one defer the CAL offer ofr a while then one day decide to take it, are they then placed in the next "new hire" class available?
how would that work--
do they have to go down the list and offer a job at CAL to everyone before a bypass gets a 2nd offer or can one defer the CAL offer ofr a while then one day decide to take it, are they then placed in the next "new hire" class available?
You only get 2 calls for it. If you turn it down the first time, you will not keep getting called every time there is a new class. You remain on the "do not call" list until you give them written notification that you will accept. Then the next time calls go out, you will get the call.
08-04-2010, 02:56 PM
#48
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Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 645
Originally Posted by pilotgolfer
You only get 2 calls for it. If you turn it down the first time, you will not keep getting called every time there is a new class. You remain on the "do not call" list until you give them written notification that you will accept. Then the next time calls go out, you will get the call.
08-04-2010, 03:41 PM
#49
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 363
Coto-
Section 7B of the recent LOA
ii No Pilot shall be entitled to more than two (2) offers of employment pursuant to this Section 7-B. If a Pilot declines the first offer, the employing Airline will not contact him for a second offer until he provides at least thirty (30) days notice the employing Airline in writing of his desire to re-enter the hiring process. At that time he will be eligible for the next available offer in seniority order.
KC
Section 7B of the recent LOA
ii No Pilot shall be entitled to more than two (2) offers of employment pursuant to this Section 7-B. If a Pilot declines the first offer, the employing Airline will not contact him for a second offer until he provides at least thirty (30) days notice the employing Airline in writing of his desire to re-enter the hiring process. At that time he will be eligible for the next available offer in seniority order.
KC
08-04-2010, 04:23 PM
#50
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Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 645
Thanks KC. I would interpret that to mean that he will be entitled to get in the next class in seniority order, but leaves his standing in the class murky, as well as his seniority on the new carriers list. If you decide not to go for 6 months after your first opportunity, when you go do you leap frog the people that hired on at the new carrier after you that you were senior to at your previous carrier?
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