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Well if it's Not MY Job to question then Why do they include Controllers in that stupid conference call to listen to capt EXPLAIN Why a he/she doesn't want to take an airplane? Because contrary to popular belief ?
I personally Don't CARE.. I got stuff to DO! That's just a waste of Time!
My statement was for this Useless "Bell and Whistle" EFB/ipad device.
If a Crew has a QUESTION they can call and ASK about whatever is on their mind in regard to ANY airplane! (Keeping in Mind they do NOT have a say in Maintenence and when it get's done..) Either FLY it or Don't fly it!!
I know that sounds "trite" But I lived through Summer 2000 and My attitude reflects what I learned about Crews, and ALPA during that summer. If a crew refuses an airplane? I fully support their Right to, and I've told captains on MANY occasions that REFUSING the airplane MIGHT be the ONLY impetus for routing to unroute the airplane TO GET it fixed.. But Bogus refusals?? (of the type I previously mentioned)
I couldn't care LESS! But! if the EFB is installed?? Some "Jackwagon" will refuse it if for some reason it doesn't work and they have to resort to the PAPER Flight Manual. Anybody want to Bet against me??

 

I might actually get something for being brave enough to depart without an APU. We do get a little extra for performance as a company. We may wind up getting profit sharing for the year. Remember those 182 passengers sitting behind the door? Yes, those are the ones that bought tickets and expected to get from A to B.

I am not saying an airplane should never be refused. However we have a large number of pilots that have seem to forget what we are at work for. If it is unsafe don't fly it. If it is inconvenient then suck it up and deal with the issue.

By the way the day in LAS was not a hot day and if any station does a good job of keeping the airplanes cool they do. I visited zone in LAX and they showed me the refusal message they get. It stated " Capt not comfortable flying without APU". Poor baby.

Strfyr51,

I won't take the bet because you would win!

L

 

Yep, we are now selling passenger safety and comfort on the margins. Too bad your cAPTAIN'S ego won't allow you to hear what your F/O's are saying.

 

How do you know he did not discuss this with his fo? Have not been to las in a while but when I used to go they were great with air and electric in the past.

 

Hey, didn't I see you playing a therapist on a TV commercial? Or did you just stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night?

 

Well, in one sentence you contradict yourself. You say "blanket statement morons" that don't think are the problem, but then you blanket statement that flying without an APU should not be a problem.

Some genius brought me a TED airplane into Reno with no APU a few years back. Temps were over 100. So now I have to make a Bleeds off, unpressurized takeoff with zero air pumping into the cabin of a superheated aluminum tube.

By the time they got the ground air on the airplane, the cabin temps were in the upper 80's... and they never came back down. When they wanted to start the engines, they pulled the jetway air and plugged in the huffer cart. The station manager who was concerned about her possible delay starting the engines came out and pulled the power cord, which sent the IRU's into deep 6 mode. Then she didn't want to plug the air back in because it might further cause a delay. I screamed out the window that they had 30 seconds to get the jetway moving back to the airplane to deplane the people or I was blowing the slides. The temps INDICATED were up in the 90's, probably well over 100 in the cabin. We had reports of people on the verge of passing out in the back. All this could have been avoided by the previous captain (little C) just refusing the airplane. Send it to Minneapolis or something!!

Your attitude of wanting MORE company policing of refusals (and possibly sick leave?) is disturbing in the extreme. Since when has LESS Captains authority been the goal? Sure we have some guys that refuse airplanes for stupid reasons. We also have some guys that intentionally drag their feet. But it seems pretty stupid to me to wish for MORE management involvement in our decision making. It really ****ES me off when I have to explain my safety decisions to someone who is sitting behind a comfy desk 1000 miles away.

 

The Gunny and I share the same roots and yes, I have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express.

 

A valid question. L was referring to his bravery and how he could pad his wallet and capitalize on another Captain's refusal. Since when did bravery and $$ apply to CLR? United says they don't shop airplanes. Do we want to get to a point where a Captain's decision could be clouded by the thought of extra money? So how did I know he didn't discuss it with his f/o? I don't. I do know that his train of thought and personal self gratification would not be regarded very highly by a lot of the pilots I fly with.

This comment by L leads to LAS and no APU. I go to work to ensure that passengers get from A to B as safely and comfortably as possible. Taking a plane into an extreme heat environment without an APU is a recipe for disaster. Does anyone remember FLL? Sure everyone can promise that the turn will run smoothly, but after one time of looking up at the cabin temps and seeing 90+ degrees across the board, you will not want to put yourself or your passengers in that position again.

Another nice quote from L. I saw a similar meter where the Captain was belittled for a refusal for a legal deferral. He refused a plane because he was left with one operational system in an international environment. If that system had failed, with no redundancy, things could have gotten ugly very quickly due en route weather.

We as pilots foresee a lot that zone controllers, sam, dispatch, routers cannot. We should not allow their armchair quarterbacking to influence us as well.

I am not here advocating that we should refuse for a reading lights or video monitors. There is no place for bravery, monetary gain/loss, or armchair quarterbacking in our decision making process.

 

Fll???? you mean the crew that almost taxied in front of a landing dal? Blamed on the inop apu and getting so upset about that fact. Or was the pilot upset about other things going on at the time?

 

About all the mess that went on at that station just to get off the ground. That's enough in itself. I had a similar situation minus the runway incursion. They promised the world about a plane that was brought to us at an out station. The pc air was fine, they wouldn't pull the air early, etc etc. Wrong. If you want to work in stagnant air heated to 90+ degrees, be my guest. I'm no hero, and I certainly don't want to subject my passengers or crew to that as well.