IPads? EFB's?
12-03-2010, 05:44 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: B-777 left
Posts: 1,415
Originally Posted by LeeFXDWG
Wish all Capt's were that way. Now imagine you are an FO and have to draw the line saying I'm not flying with issue "x".
That's why I left voluntarily. I don't need that kind of issue on a daily basis.
And, it was when I left with "aircraft shopping" going on daily.
In other words, which crew is trying to get home and will accept an aircraft with x, y, or z deferral to get home.................
Frats,
Lee
That's why I left voluntarily. I don't need that kind of issue on a daily basis.
And, it was when I left with "aircraft shopping" going on daily.
In other words, which crew is trying to get home and will accept an aircraft with x, y, or z deferral to get home.................
Frats,
Lee
As far as the rest of your statement come on all that happening on a daily basis? A little over dramatic maybe. I know some of this happens but to you on a daily basis so you left?
12-06-2010, 07:09 PM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,071
Originally Posted by strfyr51
************************************************** ***
Unfortunately you're right. I will. The CAPT'S who KNOW their business?
their word is Gold. If it's Broke to THEM? Then I need to get Busy in a Hurry! But the Guys/Gals who don't have a clue? (and you can tell that in the first 10 seconds of the call) You almost "dismiss" them out of hand and it's wrong because they could have a valid point if NOT for the Attitude they brought with it! The "top shelf" Captains? Never have attitudes. they know their business and they're talking business. The "Gunslingers" call you like they Know their business and in fact don't know much at all but they're ready to tell YOU what's wrong with the airplane!
And they do it with an Attitude as if we're going to be impressed.. We're not.. Because if they know all THAT? Then why call US?? Just make the LGDATA entry and we'll call a mechanic. That's the difference between a Federal Marshall and a "Beat Cop" in "Mayberry".
Unfortunately you're right. I will. The CAPT'S who KNOW their business?
their word is Gold. If it's Broke to THEM? Then I need to get Busy in a Hurry! But the Guys/Gals who don't have a clue? (and you can tell that in the first 10 seconds of the call) You almost "dismiss" them out of hand and it's wrong because they could have a valid point if NOT for the Attitude they brought with it! The "top shelf" Captains? Never have attitudes. they know their business and they're talking business. The "Gunslingers" call you like they Know their business and in fact don't know much at all but they're ready to tell YOU what's wrong with the airplane!
And they do it with an Attitude as if we're going to be impressed.. We're not.. Because if they know all THAT? Then why call US?? Just make the LGDATA entry and we'll call a mechanic. That's the difference between a Federal Marshall and a "Beat Cop" in "Mayberry".
12-09-2010, 06:30 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Position: A320/A319/B737 Sys Acft Maint Controller
Posts: 303
Originally Posted by SpecialTracking
Okay , I have to ask. What do "you" as Sam expect to hear from a Captain when he calls to regarding a maintenance issue, intends to refuse an airplane, and is put on the company party line?
Just tell us WHAT the refusal is for and call it a day. None of the Controllers is going to try and Sell ANY Captain, a "Pig in a poke" .
Only the Captain know His/Her Limitations and it's not up to Me nor any other controller to Judge them. Getting an "attitude" isn't going to do ONe damn thing to that airplane. But "copping" an attitude Wilth a controller?
Might make him Less inclined to work with you when there's a Grey area.
EVERY Controller knows What CAN be deferred. Where we differ is? Should it BE deferred and might this come to Bite ME in the Butt later on?? Does this Deferred Have history? What efforts were made to fix it? Were the efforts Sufficient "in good faith" TO fix it? Is this Where I need to get involved and start "DRIVING this Heap" to get it fixed to MY satisfaction?? (and I can tell you, MY satisfaction is HIGH!)
As controllers we can "drop the Hammer" (with justification) On ANY airplane at ANY time. We also Know what's LEGAL.. And Because any Captain doesn't like it Doesn't make it any LESS legal So Many times it comes down to YOUR Character. Like my "Favorite" Capt. Dru. The Nicest Pain in the ASS I've ever met. Always personable, Always polite, And ALWAYS Deadly because He KNOWS His Business.. It's a challenge just to talk to him. But it's ALWAYS an Experience!!
12-11-2010, 01:46 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B737 CAPT IAH
Posts: 1,130
Originally Posted by syd111
Maybe instead of drawing a line that I am not flying with issue x, you tried or maybe you did try to just let him know why you don't want to go with a certain problem. Explain it discuss it and work out the situation, the way you wrote it here is sounds like you did not even attemp to work out the problem. Could be he is missing something or you are missing something and you discuss the problem work it out one way or another as opposed to the line in the sand.
As far as the rest of your statement come on all that happening on a daily basis? A little over dramatic maybe. I know some of this happens but to you on a daily basis so you left?
As far as the rest of your statement come on all that happening on a daily basis? A little over dramatic maybe. I know some of this happens but to you on a daily basis so you left?
In other words, aircraft routers would push aircraft to another crew, or 2, or 3, to find their taker.
True, there are some mx issues that happen that are acceptable to flight "a" but not flight "b".
Trust me, it happened more times than I care to remember. Especially the go home flight. Think the routers/schedulers didn't know your schedule?
Yes, I did advocate in a respectful manner. Then, the line was drawn in the sand as I didn't care when safety is an issue. If I get home a day late because of it...I still got home.
Perhaps you should take the same approach.....
Frats,
Lee
12-11-2010, 02:12 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: B-777 left
Posts: 1,415
Originally Posted by LeeFXDWG
It's called "aircraft shopping" at UAL in 2008.
In other words, aircraft routers would push aircraft to another crew, or 2, or 3, to find their taker.
True, there are some mx issues that happen that are acceptable to flight "a" but not flight "b".
Trust me, it happened more times than I care to remember. Especially the go home flight. Think the routers/schedulers didn't know your schedule?
Yes, I did advocate in a respectful manner. Then, the line was drawn in the sand as I didn't care when safety is an issue. If I get home a day late because of it...I still got home.
Perhaps you should take the same approach.....
Frats,
Lee
In other words, aircraft routers would push aircraft to another crew, or 2, or 3, to find their taker.
True, there are some mx issues that happen that are acceptable to flight "a" but not flight "b".
Trust me, it happened more times than I care to remember. Especially the go home flight. Think the routers/schedulers didn't know your schedule?
Yes, I did advocate in a respectful manner. Then, the line was drawn in the sand as I didn't care when safety is an issue. If I get home a day late because of it...I still got home.
Perhaps you should take the same approach.....
Frats,
Lee
Well after 25 years at ual and 28 in the airline industry I understand aircraft shopping I just have not seen it on a daily basis like you made it sound. I also have not seen the Captains you made it sound like you had to stand up to on a daily basis.
As far as my approach I have always been comfortable with it and have never had a crewmember uncomfortable with our decsions. But are you trying to tell me I am unsafe and I should take the Lee approach? Is the Lee approach the final say in everything.
Come on and give us all a break with your attitude of doing it better than everyone else. You sound a bit like a drama queen. Can we count on you staying on the voluntary furlough list?
Last edited by syd111; 12-11-2010 at 03:26 PM.
12-12-2010, 06:12 AM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B737 CAPT IAH
Posts: 1,130
Originally Posted by syd111
Well after 25 years at ual and 28 in the airline industry I understand aircraft shopping I just have not seen it on a daily basis like you made it sound. I also have not seen the Captains you made it sound like you had to stand up to on a daily basis.
As far as my approach I have always been comfortable with it and have never had a crewmember uncomfortable with our decsions. But are you trying to tell me I am unsafe and I should take the Lee approach? Is the Lee approach the final say in everything.
Come on and give us all a break with your attitude of doing it better than everyone else. You sound a bit like a drama queen. Can we count on you staying on the voluntary furlough list?
As far as my approach I have always been comfortable with it and have never had a crewmember uncomfortable with our decsions. But are you trying to tell me I am unsafe and I should take the Lee approach? Is the Lee approach the final say in everything.
Come on and give us all a break with your attitude of doing it better than everyone else. You sound a bit like a drama queen. Can we count on you staying on the voluntary furlough list?
As you've probably heard, there is a difference between the WB world and the LCO. Your view from the left seat in the WB world is a little bit different from at least what was once going on.
Here's a great one I remember, DEN RNO, night, marginal enroute and arrival weather (TS), one pack deferred (alt restricted), other pack recurring history of recent pac ovht's with numerous pac ctlr resets as "corrective action", mountainous, terrain, etc. Acft twice declined, acft at a mx base, our original acft already given to one of the crews who declined our new acft. End of a long day. End of the DEN depts for the day. No spare acft.
Capt wanted to press with it. After discussion on many factors, he reconsidered. Flight canx.
Here's another, SFO IAD, red-eye, nice evening, no FWD LAV. Real common sense by the acft routers! Capt thought we should press. Not.
I didn't mean to imply it happened on every day of each trip. It wasn't uncommon, however, for such examples to occur once a trip on the LCO. So it was happening much to often system wide IMO.
I'm trying to remember the highest number of orange stickers on an aircraft I flew. Suffice it to say that the lower ECAM screen one day was surrounded by orange stickers with more on the over head panel. Probably not something an ETOPS aircraft has to deal with to any great extent.
Your personal attack aside, whether I choose to return to UAL if offered a recall. will be based on my terms. Just like my decision to depart was.
Besides, if I do return, I won't see the right seat of a triple 7 until you are hopefully long retired! What are you worried about? That you might have an FO that will advocate. Great CRM there, chief.
May you have many more safe years flying at UAL.
Frats,
Lee
12-12-2010, 07:33 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: B-777 left
Posts: 1,415
On a daily basis was what was said in your original post, at that time I was flying the 757/767 mostly domestic and there was some of thos e issues on occasion and if you know your a/c and it's limitations you make an informed decision as a crew and accept or turn it down, not really that complicated. However for you to state that it was happening to you on a daily basis and you don't need that on a daily basis and that is why you left seems a bit dramatic.
By the way I like having a fo that advocates, but in your post all the drawing a line in the sand and all that and again sounding like you did this everyday sounded like a bunch of bull ****. Yes I know it happens but not like you are talking about with you doing it on a daily basis.
best of luck.
By the way I like having a fo that advocates, but in your post all the drawing a line in the sand and all that and again sounding like you did this everyday sounded like a bunch of bull ****. Yes I know it happens but not like you are talking about with you doing it on a daily basis.
best of luck.
Last edited by syd111; 12-12-2010 at 11:01 AM. Reason: spelling correction for lee
12-12-2010, 09:48 AM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B737 CAPT IAH
Posts: 1,130
Originally Posted by syd111
On a daily basis was what was said in your original post, at that time I was flying the 757/767 mostly domestic and there was some of thos e issues on occasion and if you know your a/c and it's limitations you make an informed decision as a crew and accept or turn it down, not really that complicated. However for you to state that it was happening to you on a daily basis and you don't need that on a daily basis and that is why you left seems a bit dramatic.
By the way I like having a fo that advocates, but in your post all the drawing a line in the sand and all that and again sounding like you did this everyday sounded like a bunch of bull ****. Yes I know it happens but not like you are talking about with you doing it on a daily basis.
best of lusk.
By the way I like having a fo that advocates, but in your post all the drawing a line in the sand and all that and again sounding like you did this everyday sounded like a bunch of bull ****. Yes I know it happens but not like you are talking about with you doing it on a daily basis.
best of lusk.
And seriously, hope you guys get a JCBA in the near future. However, given the mediation and what I believe (rightfully so IMO) a stalemate on section one scope, the quicker you guys can get to the 30 day cooling off, the better. Not gonna be anytime soon, but sadly the process has to run it's course.
Best of luck to you!
Frats,
Lee
12-12-2010, 02:16 PM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,071
Originally Posted by strfyr51
************************************************** ******
Just tell us WHAT the refusal is for and call it a day. None of the Controllers is going to try and Sell ANY Captain, a "Pig in a poke" .
Only the Captain know His/Her Limitations and it's not up to Me nor any other controller to Judge them. Getting an "attitude" isn't going to do ONe damn thing to that airplane. But "copping" an attitude Wilth a controller?
Might make him Less inclined to work with you when there's a Grey area.
EVERY Controller knows What CAN be deferred. Where we differ is? Should it BE deferred and might this come to Bite ME in the Butt later on?? Does this Deferred Have history? What efforts were made to fix it? Were the efforts Sufficient "in good faith" TO fix it? Is this Where I need to get involved and start "DRIVING this Heap" to get it fixed to MY satisfaction?? (and I can tell you, MY satisfaction is HIGH!)
As controllers we can "drop the Hammer" (with justification) On ANY airplane at ANY time. We also Know what's LEGAL.. And Because any Captain doesn't like it Doesn't make it any LESS legal So Many times it comes down to YOUR Character. Like my "Favorite" Capt. Dru. The Nicest Pain in the ASS I've ever met. Always personable, Always polite, And ALWAYS Deadly because He KNOWS His Business.. It's a challenge just to talk to him. But it's ALWAYS an Experience!!
Just tell us WHAT the refusal is for and call it a day. None of the Controllers is going to try and Sell ANY Captain, a "Pig in a poke" .
Only the Captain know His/Her Limitations and it's not up to Me nor any other controller to Judge them. Getting an "attitude" isn't going to do ONe damn thing to that airplane. But "copping" an attitude Wilth a controller?
Might make him Less inclined to work with you when there's a Grey area.
EVERY Controller knows What CAN be deferred. Where we differ is? Should it BE deferred and might this come to Bite ME in the Butt later on?? Does this Deferred Have history? What efforts were made to fix it? Were the efforts Sufficient "in good faith" TO fix it? Is this Where I need to get involved and start "DRIVING this Heap" to get it fixed to MY satisfaction?? (and I can tell you, MY satisfaction is HIGH!)
As controllers we can "drop the Hammer" (with justification) On ANY airplane at ANY time. We also Know what's LEGAL.. And Because any Captain doesn't like it Doesn't make it any LESS legal So Many times it comes down to YOUR Character. Like my "Favorite" Capt. Dru. The Nicest Pain in the ASS I've ever met. Always personable, Always polite, And ALWAYS Deadly because He KNOWS His Business.. It's a challenge just to talk to him. But it's ALWAYS an Experience!!
12-12-2010, 02:47 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777 Capt
Posts: 844
Originally Posted by LeeFXDWG
Best of lusk to you!
And seriously, hope you guys get a JCBA in the near future. However, given the mediation and what I believe (rightfully so IMO) a stalemate on section one scope, the quicker you guys can get to the 30 day cooling off, the better. Not gonna be anytime soon, but sadly the process has to run it's course.
Best of luck to you!
Frats,
Lee
And seriously, hope you guys get a JCBA in the near future. However, given the mediation and what I believe (rightfully so IMO) a stalemate on section one scope, the quicker you guys can get to the 30 day cooling off, the better. Not gonna be anytime soon, but sadly the process has to run it's course.
Best of luck to you!
Frats,
Lee
Enjoy your time away. Perhaps you should enjoy some time away from proselytizing on an issue you really have no accurate information on. ALPA said they are not putting in print what is being shared at meetings as they want this to be a face to face, we are doing something, sort of adventure.
L
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
