IPads? EFB's?
12-02-2010, 02:34 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Position: A320/A319/B737 Sys Acft Maint Controller
Posts: 303
Well, in one sentence you contradict yourself. You say "blanket statement morons" that don't think are the problem, but then you blanket statement that flying without an APU should not be a problem.
Some genius brought me a TED airplane into Reno with no APU a few years back. Temps were over 100. So now I have to make a Bleeds off, unpressurized takeoff with zero air pumping into the cabin of a superheated aluminum tube.
By the time they got the ground air on the airplane, the cabin temps were in the upper 80's... and they never came back down. When they wanted to start the engines, they pulled the jetway air and plugged in the huffer cart. The station manager who was concerned about her possible delay starting the engines came out and pulled the power cord, which sent the IRU's into deep 6 mode. Then she didn't want to plug the air back in because it might further cause a delay. I screamed out the window that they had 30 seconds to get the jetway moving back to the airplane to deplane the people or I was blowing the slides. The temps INDICATED were up in the 90's, probably well over 100 in the cabin. We had reports of people on the verge of passing out in the back. All this could have been avoided by the previous captain (little C) just refusing the airplane. Send it to Minneapolis or something!!
Your attitude of wanting MORE company policing of refusals (and possibly sick leave?) is disturbing in the extreme. Since when has LESS Captains authority been the goal? Sure we have some guys that refuse airplanes for stupid reasons. We also have some guys that intentionally drag their feet. But it seems pretty stupid to me to wish for MORE management involvement in our decision making. It really ****ES me off when I have to explain my safety decisions to someone who is sitting behind a comfy desk 1000 miles away.
Some genius brought me a TED airplane into Reno with no APU a few years back. Temps were over 100. So now I have to make a Bleeds off, unpressurized takeoff with zero air pumping into the cabin of a superheated aluminum tube.
By the time they got the ground air on the airplane, the cabin temps were in the upper 80's... and they never came back down. When they wanted to start the engines, they pulled the jetway air and plugged in the huffer cart. The station manager who was concerned about her possible delay starting the engines came out and pulled the power cord, which sent the IRU's into deep 6 mode. Then she didn't want to plug the air back in because it might further cause a delay. I screamed out the window that they had 30 seconds to get the jetway moving back to the airplane to deplane the people or I was blowing the slides. The temps INDICATED were up in the 90's, probably well over 100 in the cabin. We had reports of people on the verge of passing out in the back. All this could have been avoided by the previous captain (little C) just refusing the airplane. Send it to Minneapolis or something!!
Your attitude of wanting MORE company policing of refusals (and possibly sick leave?) is disturbing in the extreme. Since when has LESS Captains authority been the goal? Sure we have some guys that refuse airplanes for stupid reasons. We also have some guys that intentionally drag their feet. But it seems pretty stupid to me to wish for MORE management involvement in our decision making. It really ****ES me off when I have to explain my safety decisions to someone who is sitting behind a comfy desk 1000 miles away.
I might actually get something for being brave enough to depart without an APU. We do get a little extra for performance as a company. We may wind up getting profit sharing for the year. Remember those 182 passengers sitting behind the door? Yes, those are the ones that bought tickets and expected to get from A to B.
I am not saying an airplane should never be refused. However we have a large number of pilots that have seem to forget what we are at work for. If it is unsafe don't fly it. If it is inconvenient then suck it up and deal with the issue.
By the way the day in LAS was not a hot day and if any station does a good job of keeping the airplanes cool they do. I visited zone in LAX and they showed me the refusal message they get. It stated " Capt not comfortable flying without APU". Poor baby.
Strfyr51,
I won't take the bet because you would win!
L
I am not saying an airplane should never be refused. However we have a large number of pilots that have seem to forget what we are at work for. If it is unsafe don't fly it. If it is inconvenient then suck it up and deal with the issue.
By the way the day in LAS was not a hot day and if any station does a good job of keeping the airplanes cool they do. I visited zone in LAX and they showed me the refusal message they get. It stated " Capt not comfortable flying without APU". Poor baby.
Strfyr51,
I won't take the bet because you would win!
L
Unfortunately you're right. I will. The CAPT'S who KNOW their business?
their word is Gold. If it's Broke to THEM? Then I need to get Busy in a Hurry! But the Guys/Gals who don't have a clue? (and you can tell that in the first 10 seconds of the call) You almost "dismiss" them out of hand and it's wrong because they could have a valid point if NOT for the Attitude they brought with it! The "top shelf" Captains? Never have attitudes. they know their business and they're talking business. The "Gunslingers" call you like they Know their business and in fact don't know much at all but they're ready to tell YOU what's wrong with the airplane!
And they do it with an Attitude as if we're going to be impressed.. We're not.. Because if they know all THAT? Then why call US?? Just make the LGDATA entry and we'll call a mechanic. That's the difference between a Federal Marshall and a "Beat Cop" in "Mayberry".
12-02-2010, 05:57 PM
#52
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
************************************************** ***
Unfortunately you're right. I will. The CAPT'S who KNOW their business?
their word is Gold. If it's Broke to THEM? Then I need to get Busy in a Hurry! But the Guys/Gals who don't have a clue? (and you can tell that in the first 10 seconds of the call) You almost "dismiss" them out of hand and it's wrong because they could have a valid point if NOT for the Attitude they brought with it! The "top shelf" Captains? Never have attitudes. they know their business and they're talking business. The "Gunslingers" call you like they Know their business and in fact don't know much at all but they're ready to tell YOU what's wrong with the airplane!
And they do it with an Attitude as if we're going to be impressed.. We're not.. Because if they know all THAT? Then why call US?? Just make the LGDATA entry and we'll call a mechanic. That's the difference between a Federal Marshall and a "Beat Cop" in "Mayberry".
Unfortunately you're right. I will. The CAPT'S who KNOW their business?
their word is Gold. If it's Broke to THEM? Then I need to get Busy in a Hurry! But the Guys/Gals who don't have a clue? (and you can tell that in the first 10 seconds of the call) You almost "dismiss" them out of hand and it's wrong because they could have a valid point if NOT for the Attitude they brought with it! The "top shelf" Captains? Never have attitudes. they know their business and they're talking business. The "Gunslingers" call you like they Know their business and in fact don't know much at all but they're ready to tell YOU what's wrong with the airplane!
And they do it with an Attitude as if we're going to be impressed.. We're not.. Because if they know all THAT? Then why call US?? Just make the LGDATA entry and we'll call a mechanic. That's the difference between a Federal Marshall and a "Beat Cop" in "Mayberry".
Just so you know, there are plenty of mechanics with the same attitude you attribute to pilots.
12-02-2010, 05:59 PM
#53
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: A320 Cap
Posts: 2,282
https://crewroom.alpa.org/ual/Deskto...cumentID=19676
Starts about page 27 and runs through 34. Enjoy
Starts about page 27 and runs through 34. Enjoy
8. The UAL-MEC is opposed to the dispatching of aircraft with an inoperative
generator under the following conditions:
a. Two engine aircraft from a UAL maintenance station. (April 2003)
b. B-767/757/A-319/320 (including the APU generator), unless the aircraft is
operated in day light hours and in visual meteorological conditions. (July
2001)
12-03-2010, 07:33 AM
#55
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
GONE??
If being "Gone" means that one still gets paid $600K/yr while accumulating $150K/yr in restricted stock for the next 24 months.....please sign me up for "GONE" package.
I guarentee in his new role as "Gone"/"None Executive".....he's doing a lot more than just sitting idle while whispering sweet nothings in Jeffery's ear during this process.
If being "Gone" means that one still gets paid $600K/yr while accumulating $150K/yr in restricted stock for the next 24 months.....please sign me up for "GONE" package.
I guarentee in his new role as "Gone"/"None Executive".....he's doing a lot more than just sitting idle while whispering sweet nothings in Jeffery's ear during this process.
12-03-2010, 08:47 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Le Bus
Posts: 382
GONE??
If being "Gone" means that one still gets paid $600K/yr while accumulating $150K/yr in restricted stock for the next 24 months.....please sign me up for "GONE" package.
I guarentee in his new role as "Gone"/"None Executive".....he's doing a lot more than just sitting idle while whispering sweet nothings in Jeffery's ear during this process.
If being "Gone" means that one still gets paid $600K/yr while accumulating $150K/yr in restricted stock for the next 24 months.....please sign me up for "GONE" package.
I guarentee in his new role as "Gone"/"None Executive".....he's doing a lot more than just sitting idle while whispering sweet nothings in Jeffery's ear during this process.
12-03-2010, 10:18 AM
#57
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Posts: 2,086
If "UAL" in the post merged life really wanted Glenn "GONE", 'they' would have pulled out their check-books and sent him "packing" with several "Zeros" after October 1st when the financial closing took place.....instead he is 'allowed' to stick around for 24 months and get more "milk off the teet"....things that make you go "hmmm"??
GONE??.....hardly.
12-03-2010, 11:12 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 114
************************************************** ***
Unfortunately you're right. I will. The CAPT'S who KNOW their business?
their word is Gold. If it's Broke to THEM? Then I need to get Busy in a Hurry! But the Guys/Gals who don't have a clue? (and you can tell that in the first 10 seconds of the call) You almost "dismiss" them out of hand and it's wrong because they could have a valid point if NOT for the Attitude they brought with it! The "top shelf" Captains? Never have attitudes. they know their business and they're talking business. The "Gunslingers" call you like they Know their business and in fact don't know much at all but they're ready to tell YOU what's wrong with the airplane!
And they do it with an Attitude as if we're going to be impressed.. We're not.. Because if they know all THAT? Then why call US?? Just make the LGDATA entry and we'll call a mechanic. That's the difference between a Federal Marshall and a "Beat Cop" in "Mayberry".
Unfortunately you're right. I will. The CAPT'S who KNOW their business?
their word is Gold. If it's Broke to THEM? Then I need to get Busy in a Hurry! But the Guys/Gals who don't have a clue? (and you can tell that in the first 10 seconds of the call) You almost "dismiss" them out of hand and it's wrong because they could have a valid point if NOT for the Attitude they brought with it! The "top shelf" Captains? Never have attitudes. they know their business and they're talking business. The "Gunslingers" call you like they Know their business and in fact don't know much at all but they're ready to tell YOU what's wrong with the airplane!
And they do it with an Attitude as if we're going to be impressed.. We're not.. Because if they know all THAT? Then why call US?? Just make the LGDATA entry and we'll call a mechanic. That's the difference between a Federal Marshall and a "Beat Cop" in "Mayberry".
Digging deeper, I should never have been put in that position to begin with. That jet came in from ORD with the lav deferred inop, and I guess no one knew or cared where it was going next. That's a systemic problem. It should have been fixed at ORD before being flown to outstations. Not to mention that the old Shuttle jets with fewer lavs and no galleys should not have been assigned to longer legs like that. Moot point now.
It's a fact that UAL MX is grossly under-resourced, and senior management is obviously responsible for that. IMO, UAL abuses the MEL. It should be used to get a jet from a station where it can't be fixed to one where it can, not flown around for a week in and out of large maintenance bases.
When I write up a jet, I never try to tell MX what the cause of the problem is. You guys are the experts and will find the cause, I just report the symptoms as accurately as possible. I ask you to give Captains that kind of professional courtesy when they refuse a jet.
12-03-2010, 05:20 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B737 CAPT IAH
Posts: 1,130
That's exactly what I did as a Captain. I never had a discussion with anyone but my FO about an aircraft refusal, I just did it through Unimatic, ACARS or a short phone call to Dispatch. And I was never questioned by anyone about it, which was a good thing because the decision had been made and was not negotiable. If I was at a maintenance station, I'd call or go talk to the line mechanics to see what the real story was on how long it would take to fix. I'm sure at times there was some eye rolling going on, like when I refused one of the old Shuttle -300s for an inop forward lav. I was not willing to fly 133 pax and crew with one operative lav on a 3:45 leg from PHL to DEN. So we waited 45 minutes for another jet to arrive and swapped with that crew, as they had a shorter leg back to ORD.
Digging deeper, I should never have been put in that position to begin with. That jet came in from ORD with the lav deferred inop, and I guess no one knew or cared where it was going next. That's a systemic problem. It should have been fixed at ORD before being flown to outstations. Not to mention that the old Shuttle jets with fewer lavs and no galleys should not have been assigned to longer legs like that. Moot point now.
It's a fact that UAL MX is grossly under-resourced, and senior management is obviously responsible for that. IMO, UAL abuses the MEL. It should be used to get a jet from a station where it can't be fixed to one where it can, not flown around for a week in and out of large maintenance bases.
When I write up a jet, I never try to tell MX what the cause of the problem is. You guys are the experts and will find the cause, I just report the symptoms as accurately as possible. I ask you to give Captains that kind of professional courtesy when they refuse a jet.
Digging deeper, I should never have been put in that position to begin with. That jet came in from ORD with the lav deferred inop, and I guess no one knew or cared where it was going next. That's a systemic problem. It should have been fixed at ORD before being flown to outstations. Not to mention that the old Shuttle jets with fewer lavs and no galleys should not have been assigned to longer legs like that. Moot point now.
It's a fact that UAL MX is grossly under-resourced, and senior management is obviously responsible for that. IMO, UAL abuses the MEL. It should be used to get a jet from a station where it can't be fixed to one where it can, not flown around for a week in and out of large maintenance bases.
When I write up a jet, I never try to tell MX what the cause of the problem is. You guys are the experts and will find the cause, I just report the symptoms as accurately as possible. I ask you to give Captains that kind of professional courtesy when they refuse a jet.
That's why I left voluntarily. I don't need that kind of issue on a daily basis.
And, it was when I left with "aircraft shopping" going on daily.
In other words, which crew is trying to get home and will accept an aircraft with x, y, or z deferral to get home.................
Frats,
Lee
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
