What to do about Contract Violation
11-08-2010 | 06:13 AM
#41
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,086
Likes: 0
From: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Per the company's response as mentioned above.....IF CAL ALPA (along with it's legal council) is able to cite clear/blatant violation of it's present CBA regarding it's SCOPE provision, I honestly feel that this could go beyond just CAL/UAL as far as ALPA goes. With "outsourcing" (especially if this is found to be an illegal violation per contractual bindings) being a growing problem/issue to the mainline flying industry wide, it WOULD not surprise me if some sort of action be sponsored/supported by other big ALPA carrier's regarding the type of flying that SkyWest could potentially embark on with 70 seat RJ's out of IAH (IE DAL, Alaska, maybe even FedEx as well to show solidarity in protecting CBA rights and blatant violations). It's abundantly clear that this is just NOT a 'local' issue, but one that could/can affect any mainline carrier as it pertains to it's regional feed and industry landscape.
This specific issue has the potential to get VERY VERY messy. For everyone's sake, I hope that CAL ALPA (Along with the full support of UAL ALPA) is able to draw clear violation so that the company has no choice to cease & desist NOW on the matter as it pertains to the standing CBA that the CAL pilot's presently hold.
11-08-2010 | 06:26 AM
#42
Thread Starter
Need More Callouts
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,143
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From: Unbridled Enthusiasm
Your post is spot on. I can't believe some of the responses on this thread. I know this is not the most ideal situation, but we shouldn't be taking out our anger on Skywest pilots. We should be focusing our efforts on the company and take it to court if we have to.
In close to 20 years I have denied a jumpseat once. It was too someone who was really rude to a gate agent and flight attendant. If I hear a CAL pilot denying a jumpseat to a Skywest pilot trying to get to work, I'm going to put the CAL pilots name on my do not jumpseat list.
Skywest pilots, you are always welcome on my jumpseat.
In close to 20 years I have denied a jumpseat once. It was too someone who was really rude to a gate agent and flight attendant. If I hear a CAL pilot denying a jumpseat to a Skywest pilot trying to get to work, I'm going to put the CAL pilots name on my do not jumpseat list.
Skywest pilots, you are always welcome on my jumpseat.
Care to share your name so I can make sure and attempt to jumpseat on your aircraft?
11-08-2010 | 06:33 AM
#43
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 12
756driver,
One day I posted a response to a thread and you just out of the blue called me some guy named Kevin or whatever, and said that I don't pay dues. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion (probably the same logic that caused you to think that taking out your anger on Skywest pilots was the right way to stick it to management and fix their scope violation), but it is not correct.
Like I said before, I will not post my name on a public message board. In the name of transparency, I'm 6ft5 and I fly out of IAH. That should be enough to figure out who I am.
One day I posted a response to a thread and you just out of the blue called me some guy named Kevin or whatever, and said that I don't pay dues. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion (probably the same logic that caused you to think that taking out your anger on Skywest pilots was the right way to stick it to management and fix their scope violation), but it is not correct.
Like I said before, I will not post my name on a public message board. In the name of transparency, I'm 6ft5 and I fly out of IAH. That should be enough to figure out who I am.
11-08-2010 | 07:00 AM
#44
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,282
Likes: 0
From: A320 Cap
756driver,
One day I posted a response to a thread and you just out of the blue called me some guy named Kevin or whatever, and said that I don't pay dues. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion (probably the same logic that caused you to think that taking out your anger on Skywest pilots was the right way to stick it to management and fix their scope violation), but it is not correct.
Like I said before, I will not post my name on a public message board. In the name of transparency, I'm 6ft5 and I fly out of IAH. That should be enough to figure out who I am.
One day I posted a response to a thread and you just out of the blue called me some guy named Kevin or whatever, and said that I don't pay dues. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion (probably the same logic that caused you to think that taking out your anger on Skywest pilots was the right way to stick it to management and fix their scope violation), but it is not correct.
Like I said before, I will not post my name on a public message board. In the name of transparency, I'm 6ft5 and I fly out of IAH. That should be enough to figure out who I am.
11-08-2010 | 07:09 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 432
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This is really sad: all of the animosity towards each other when everyone wants the same outcome. What about Unity in the pilot group? Regional, Mainline, everyone wants the same thing. So why don't we all come up with a way to fix it that doesn't involve screwing each other over? Screwing over a Skywest pilot trying to get to work is not going to fix anything. And screwing over a CAL pilot because of denying a Skywest pilot is not going to do anything. The CAL pilot is just trying to fight for his or her rights and the Skywest pilot is just trying to fly the job that they were contracted to fly. I understand the jumpseat denial concept, I just think it will be very ineffective and rather just hurt the person trying to jumpseat over creating a ripple effect. I can tell you this: I travel all the time and I almost NEVER use the jumpseat. So even if you were able to have this go system wide the pilots are probably non-reving anyway and you will never know they are on your flight. The right way to go about this would be to get your unions involved. Remember the flight that a regional crew was going to operate from *i think* Ewr to IAH? They had no idea it was against CALs scope, but the union stepped in and the crew found out they could not operate the flight and did not. You need to get the Union to step in and use the right venues to ALLOW the Skywest pilots to deny the work without fearing consequences. Or stop the work before it gets to Skywest. This means you need to negotiate this. Unfortunately it may be awhile before you can actually get something done about it, but if you all work hard to negotiate the right scope, it can be done eventually, and with tact and respect for your fellow pilots, regional or mainline.
By the way in case anyone is wondering I do not work for any of the 3 airlines involved here and never have, but this is an issue that us as pilots care about across the board.
By the way in case anyone is wondering I do not work for any of the 3 airlines involved here and never have, but this is an issue that us as pilots care about across the board.
11-08-2010 | 07:40 AM
#46
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,734
Likes: 12
This is really sad: all of the animosity towards each other when everyone wants the same outcome. What about Unity in the pilot group? Regional, Mainline, everyone wants the same thing. So why don't we all come up with a way to fix it that doesn't involve screwing each other over? Screwing over a Skywest pilot trying to get to work is not going to fix anything. And screwing over a CAL pilot because of denying a Skywest pilot is not going to do anything. The CAL pilot is just trying to fight for his or her rights and the Skywest pilot is just trying to fly the job that they were contracted to fly. I understand the jumpseat denial concept, I just think it will be very ineffective and rather just hurt the person trying to jumpseat over creating a ripple effect. I can tell you this: I travel all the time and I almost NEVER use the jumpseat. So even if you were able to have this go system wide the pilots are probably non-reving anyway and you will never know they are on your flight. The right way to go about this would be to get your unions involved. Remember the flight that a regional crew was going to operate from *i think* Ewr to IAH? They had no idea it was against CALs scope, but the union stepped in and the crew found out they could not operate the flight and did not. You need to get the Union to step in and use the right venues to ALLOW the Skywest pilots to deny the work without fearing consequences. Or stop the work before it gets to Skywest. This means you need to negotiate this. Unfortunately it may be awhile before you can actually get something done about it, but if you all work hard to negotiate the right scope, it can be done eventually, and with tact and respect for your fellow pilots, regional or mainline.
11-08-2010 | 07:41 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 822
Likes: 0
From: CRJ200 Capt.
Would one of you CAL pilots throwing the term "scab" around please post the part of your scope that prohibits United from operating 50+ seat United Express flights out of IAH, CLE, or EWR...Chapter and verse let's hear the language...
"This sucks, change it" is not a violation of the contract. Give us the language that is being violated.
"This sucks, change it" is not a violation of the contract. Give us the language that is being violated.
11-08-2010 | 08:05 AM
#48
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,282
Likes: 0
From: A320 Cap
This is really sad: all of the animosity towards each other when everyone wants the same outcome. What about Unity in the pilot group? Regional, Mainline, everyone wants the same thing. So why don't we all come up with a way to fix it that doesn't involve screwing each other over? Screwing over a Skywest pilot trying to get to work is not going to fix anything. And screwing over a CAL pilot because of denying a Skywest pilot is not going to do anything. The CAL pilot is just trying to fight for his or her rights and the Skywest pilot is just trying to fly the job that they were contracted to fly. I understand the jumpseat denial concept, I just think it will be very ineffective and rather just hurt the person trying to jumpseat over creating a ripple effect. I can tell you this: I travel all the time and I almost NEVER use the jumpseat. So even if you were able to have this go system wide the pilots are probably non-reving anyway and you will never know they are on your flight. The right way to go about this would be to get your unions involved. Remember the flight that a regional crew was going to operate from *i think* Ewr to IAH? They had no idea it was against CALs scope, but the union stepped in and the crew found out they could not operate the flight and did not. You need to get the Union to step in and use the right venues to ALLOW the Skywest pilots to deny the work without fearing consequences. Or stop the work before it gets to Skywest. This means you need to negotiate this. Unfortunately it may be awhile before you can actually get something done about it, but if you all work hard to negotiate the right scope, it can be done eventually, and with tact and respect for your fellow pilots, regional or mainline.
By the way in case anyone is wondering I do not work for any of the 3 airlines involved here and never have, but this is an issue that us as pilots care about across the board.
By the way in case anyone is wondering I do not work for any of the 3 airlines involved here and never have, but this is an issue that us as pilots care about across the board.
I'm surprised the new UAL management made this move. Talk about stirring up the hornets nest! This has just strengthened the resolve of ALL the new UAL pilots to at the very least eliminate the 70 seat flying from our regional feed. It has served as a unifying entity for both pilot groups... I can't imagine that was managements intent.
11-08-2010 | 08:08 AM
#49
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,282
Likes: 0
From: A320 Cap
Would one of you CAL pilots throwing the term "scab" around please post the part of your scope that prohibits United from operating 50+ seat United Express flights out of IAH, CLE, or EWR...Chapter and verse let's hear the language...
"This sucks, change it" is not a violation of the contract. Give us the language that is being violated.
"This sucks, change it" is not a violation of the contract. Give us the language that is being violated.
I don't have the CAL contract, but I'm guessing it would be the same language that prohibited CAL from flying 70 seaters out of IAH, CLE, or EWR with CAL codes on them, which is how these flights are being marketed. The CAL pilots position is that they still operate under their contract, so the UAL scope does not apply to CAL coded flying. I'm sure someone who has the actual contract will chime in here, but that won't help you. The argument is not the language, it's how you INTERPRET the language. Clearly every side will INTERPRET it the way that best suits their goals, so you aren't going to get anywhere there until its ruled upon by some sort of enforcement body.
11-08-2010 | 08:26 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 420
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You're going to screw over a bunch of junior guys that were displaced to a domicile they don't want, to do flying they don't want, all because of your union's failure to enforce your contract?
Almost nobody at SkyWest wants to do this flying, but since it isn't struck work our hands are tied. Instead of taking out your frustration on a bunch of junior pilots that will want nothing more than to transfer out of Houston, why not instead focus that frustration toward your union and your management? They're the ones that can stop it.
Almost nobody at SkyWest wants to do this flying, but since it isn't struck work our hands are tied. Instead of taking out your frustration on a bunch of junior pilots that will want nothing more than to transfer out of Houston, why not instead focus that frustration toward your union and your management? They're the ones that can stop it.
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