Jeff's comment on outsourcing
11-26-2010 | 10:00 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2005
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mgt position is going to be, what is it worth to the pilot group and what are the pilots and every other work group willing to give up to have that size of aircraft flown, maintained, serviced by mainline personnel?
If you are not up for a 20% pay cut, 15% increase in work rules, reduction in duty/trip rigs, then you are just spinning your wheels and losing out on negotiating more important issues, such as QOL, pay, retirement enhancements (some type) schedule protection, and the list just keeps going on. But keep after the 70 seat market, all you are doing is delaying the conclusion of negotiations which is okay with management because they keep on as is.
If you are not up for a 20% pay cut, 15% increase in work rules, reduction in duty/trip rigs, then you are just spinning your wheels and losing out on negotiating more important issues, such as QOL, pay, retirement enhancements (some type) schedule protection, and the list just keeps going on. But keep after the 70 seat market, all you are doing is delaying the conclusion of negotiations which is okay with management because they keep on as is.
11-26-2010 | 10:22 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2010
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From: A320/A319/B737 Sys Acft Maint Controller
mgt position is going to be, what is it worth to the pilot group and what are the pilots and every other work group willing to give up to have that size of aircraft flown, maintained, serviced by mainline personnel?
If you are not up for a 20% pay cut, 15% increase in work rules, reduction in duty/trip rigs, then you are just spinning your wheels and losing out on negotiating more important issues, such as QOL, pay, retirement enhancements (some type) schedule protection, and the list just keeps going on. But keep after the 70 seat market, all you are doing is delaying the conclusion of negotiations which is okay with management because they keep on as is.
If you are not up for a 20% pay cut, 15% increase in work rules, reduction in duty/trip rigs, then you are just spinning your wheels and losing out on negotiating more important issues, such as QOL, pay, retirement enhancements (some type) schedule protection, and the list just keeps going on. But keep after the 70 seat market, all you are doing is delaying the conclusion of negotiations which is okay with management because they keep on as is.
You're Right on the Money!! "Scrooge and Marley" (Glenn T, and Jeff) ONLY care about MONEY! And they can't WAIT to "Swindle" ALPA!!
11-26-2010 | 10:43 AM
#13
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 437
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From: Furlough/Gun Driver
It would be GREAT NEWS to have mainline take back the 70 seaters. But the logistics of doing so Is mind boggling. Management would not be willing to cancel the long term 70 seat contracts UAL has with Skywest, Republic, TSA/Gojets and Mesa and pay millions in breach of contract fees. Then a mainline training program for FAA, pilots and mechanics will have to be started. More millions. Some have suggested just let the contracts expire and go from there. There is still many many years left on some of those contacts. Mainline pilots would be sacrificing a lot of negotiating capital and possible pay raises to be successful on this one. My hats off to them if they succeed.
But I applaud you for trying to defend the 70 seat flying you do in United paint.
11-26-2010 | 01:24 PM
#14
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 363
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mgt position is going to be, what is it worth to the pilot group and what are the pilots and every other work group willing to give up to have that size of aircraft flown, maintained, serviced by mainline personnel?
If you are not up for a 20% pay cut, 15% increase in work rules, reduction in duty/trip rigs, then you are just spinning your wheels and losing out on negotiating more important issues, such as QOL, pay, retirement enhancements (some type) schedule protection, and the list just keeps going on. But keep after the 70 seat market, all you are doing is delaying the conclusion of negotiations which is okay with management because they keep on as is.
If you are not up for a 20% pay cut, 15% increase in work rules, reduction in duty/trip rigs, then you are just spinning your wheels and losing out on negotiating more important issues, such as QOL, pay, retirement enhancements (some type) schedule protection, and the list just keeps going on. But keep after the 70 seat market, all you are doing is delaying the conclusion of negotiations which is okay with management because they keep on as is.
If I gave something, either in exchange for something or for nothing, the value is already lost. To get it back requires the other side to lose something, not for me to give something else. To suggest otherwise just continues the concessionary trend which has beaten every major airline pilot contract since 9/11.
There is NO way an economically neutral JCBA will make it past MR, period. That is the whole point of this JCBA, if it takes them longer to realize that then so be it.
KC
11-26-2010 | 01:56 PM
#15
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,282
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From: A320 Cap
mgt position is going to be, what is it worth to the pilot group and what are the pilots and every other work group willing to give up to have that size of aircraft flown, maintained, serviced by mainline personnel?
If you are not up for a 20% pay cut, 15% increase in work rules, reduction in duty/trip rigs, then you are just spinning your wheels and losing out on negotiating more important issues, such as QOL, pay, retirement enhancements (some type) schedule protection, and the list just keeps going on. But keep after the 70 seat market, all you are doing is delaying the conclusion of negotiations which is okay with management because they keep on as is.
If you are not up for a 20% pay cut, 15% increase in work rules, reduction in duty/trip rigs, then you are just spinning your wheels and losing out on negotiating more important issues, such as QOL, pay, retirement enhancements (some type) schedule protection, and the list just keeps going on. But keep after the 70 seat market, all you are doing is delaying the conclusion of negotiations which is okay with management because they keep on as is.
The 70's are barely profitable at present fuel costs, and the 50's are a noose. The luster of airplanes less than 90 seats is fading fast, but you won't hear management saying that, as it lessens their bargaining power. Read the consensus of the analysts to see a more objective view
11-26-2010 | 01:58 PM
#16
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,282
Likes: 0
From: A320 Cap
I hear where you are coming from but most would point out 70 seat scope was given away by one individual signing a side LOA in return for A fund security. A fund security never happened, but the 70 seat scope removal remained.
If I gave something, either in exchange for something or for nothing, the value is already lost. To get it back requires the other side to lose something, not for me to give something else. To suggest otherwise just continues the concessionary trend which has beaten every major airline pilot contract since 9/11.
There is NO way an economically neutral JCBA will make it past MR, period. That is the whole point of this JCBA, if it takes them longer to realize that then so be it.
KC
If I gave something, either in exchange for something or for nothing, the value is already lost. To get it back requires the other side to lose something, not for me to give something else. To suggest otherwise just continues the concessionary trend which has beaten every major airline pilot contract since 9/11.
There is NO way an economically neutral JCBA will make it past MR, period. That is the whole point of this JCBA, if it takes them longer to realize that then so be it.
KC
11-26-2010 | 03:44 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 451
Likes: 0
From: 737 Cap
mgt position is going to be, what is it worth to the pilot group and what are the pilots and every other work group willing to give up to have that size of aircraft flown, maintained, serviced by mainline personnel?
If you are not up for a 20% pay cut, 15% increase in work rules, reduction in duty/trip rigs, then you are just spinning your wheels and losing out on negotiating more important issues, such as QOL, pay, retirement enhancements (some type) schedule protection, and the list just keeps going on. But keep after the 70 seat market, all you are doing is delaying the conclusion of negotiations which is okay with management because they keep on as is.
If you are not up for a 20% pay cut, 15% increase in work rules, reduction in duty/trip rigs, then you are just spinning your wheels and losing out on negotiating more important issues, such as QOL, pay, retirement enhancements (some type) schedule protection, and the list just keeps going on. But keep after the 70 seat market, all you are doing is delaying the conclusion of negotiations which is okay with management because they keep on as is.
Scott
11-26-2010 | 04:53 PM
#19
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
From: Barbie Jet
Well why don't you start with getting rid of the E170's! The only company who operates these aircraft for UAL is Shuttle America/Republic who is Directly competing with UAL out of DEN!!! (ala Frontier) The CRJ 700 has 66 seats in the ex-plus configuation while the 170 has 70. Why not start with getting rid of CA Whiteford's desperate attempt to save the pension only to have it dumped without a Vote...and at least save yourselves 4 seats X 40+ airframes. I don't want to hijack your thread but Just saying you gotta start some where...why not start with what caused the ultimate demise of the guppy and go from there...
11-26-2010 | 04:54 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 239
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It's difficult to believe this point was over his head but it is apparently so. Wonder if there is any remorse in sending a whole bunch of his junior co-workers to the street....for nothing. Amazing.
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