UAL Work Rules
01-06-2012, 03:41 PM
#41
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Joined APC: Jun 2005
Posts: 203
Originally Posted by bkaz
Nice review of Reserve life at CAL.
As a comparison, as a reserve at UAL
1. You can aggressively pick up open trips at 24 hrs out or 11:00 AM the day prior, whichever is earlier.
2. You can pick up a trip with your days of availability or one less.
3. Once you pick up or are assigned a trip, you are not phone available before report time. No periods of reserve availability before a report either.
4. On last day of availability, if not assigned a trip, you are released at 12:00 for long call and 15:00 for short call.
B
As a comparison, as a reserve at UAL
1. You can aggressively pick up open trips at 24 hrs out or 11:00 AM the day prior, whichever is earlier.
2. You can pick up a trip with your days of availability or one less.
3. Once you pick up or are assigned a trip, you are not phone available before report time. No periods of reserve availability before a report either.
4. On last day of availability, if not assigned a trip, you are released at 12:00 for long call and 15:00 for short call.
B
Great overview. I do have two corrections and one piece of additional information that has worked well for me in the past.
1. You can aggressively pick up open trips at 28 hrs out or 11:00 AM the day prior, whichever is earlier. (Maybe that's why you kept missing out on those sweet trips.
) 20-J-2-f
4. On last day of availability, if not assigned a trip, you are released at 10:00 AM for long call and 15:00 for short call.
5-G-1-e-(6)-(b)
Also, the top 20% of available reserves in domicile/fleet/seat are not included in the normal reserve profile. In other words, if you are a senior reserve, or a lineholder slumming for a better schedule, the top 20% will get their 12 days off placed where ever they bid for them. (IOW, if you are too junior to get weekends off as a lineholder, you can bid reserve with weekends off and the company will have to honor it; as long as you are in the top 20% of available reserves.)
5-G-1-e-(9)
01-06-2012, 04:04 PM
#43
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Joined APC: Jun 2005
Posts: 203
Originally Posted by bkaz
Thanks for the correction. I was going from memory. It's been a while.
I've been living it for the last 5 years, and I still screw it up on occassion.
(Which is why I included the contract citations. I had to make sure I knew what I was talking about.
)Hog
01-06-2012, 04:43 PM
#44
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Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: 787 CA
Posts: 423
Originally Posted by Sonny Crockett
Hey "cAPT'N"
That comment was a little below the belt--you made it to a furloughed guy who I flew with personally back in 2000 when he was a 727 S/O.
I'll buy the first round of cold beer.....WE NEED to learn to U-N-I-T-E.
That comment was a little below the belt--you made it to a furloughed guy who I flew with personally back in 2000 when he was a 727 S/O.
I'll buy the first round of cold beer.....WE NEED to learn to U-N-I-T-E.
Keep your beer until you can figure out how to correctly capitalize.
.
Last edited by 13n144e; 01-07-2012 at 02:57 AM.
01-06-2012, 05:04 PM
#45
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Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Le Bus
Posts: 382
Originally Posted by Sonny Crockett
Hey "cAPT'N"
That comment was a little below the belt--you made it to a furloughed guy who I flew with personally back in 2000 when he was a 727 S/O.
I'll buy the first round of cold beer.....WE NEED to learn to U-N-I-T-E.
That comment was a little below the belt--you made it to a furloughed guy who I flew with personally back in 2000 when he was a 727 S/O.
I'll buy the first round of cold beer.....WE NEED to learn to U-N-I-T-E.
01-06-2012, 10:36 PM
#46
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: IAH 737 CA
Posts: 690
Originally Posted by bkaz
Nice review of Reserve life at CAL.
As a comparison, as a reserve at UAL
1. You can aggressively pick up open trips at 24 hrs out or 11:00 AM the day prior, whichever is earlier.
2. You can pick up a trip with your days of availability or one less.
3. Once you pick up or are assigned a trip, you are not phone available before report time. No periods of reserve availability before a report either.
4. On last day of availability, if not assigned a trip, you are released at 12:00 for long call and 15:00 for short call.
5. 14:00 rest between flights in domicile, and a 9 hours in hotel room on layovers vs. 9 or 10 hours rest in domicile and FAR rest on layovers for CAL.
6. 24 in 7 free from duty must be in domicile at UAL.
7. Aggressive pick ups at UAL are not restricted one you get close to guarantee. You can continue to pick up flying until reaching monthly cap.
8. For domestic reserves, no movable days.
9. Only a 70 hr guarantee vs. 76/72 at CAL. If given the choice, I would take the 70 hrs with the added protections.
None of these difference is earth shattering, but taken in whole, it is a huge difference in QOL and schedulers ability to abuse you. As a commuting reserve at UAL before the furlough, I was able to to fly into base on my first day of reserve rather that the previous day much more often than not. It sounds like that is mostly not an option at CAL.
By watching open flying and picking up trips, I was many times able to pick up a three day trip with a late report on the first of 4 days on. Didn't have to be phone available or sit reserve before. That's more time at home and less ability for scheduling to f--k you. That same trip would usually get back to base in the evening on the third day. With 14 hours before you could be used again, the only thing you are legal for on your last day would be an afternoon turn( they can't move your days off to stick you with a longer trip). If they haven't assigned one, you are released at 12:00 for long call or 15:00 for short call, and you go home.
Obviously, it doesn't always work this well. By picking up trips or short calls aggressively, I would say that I ended up with something tolerable much more often than I was bent over by scheduling. And, as a commuter, I was home my first morning of reserve and/or my last night of reserve most of the time. I don't think I can count on that same luxury when I get my "recall/new hire opertunity" to CAL. It sounds like I will be a whipping boy on a continual basis, it was a part time problem at UAL.
B
As a comparison, as a reserve at UAL
1. You can aggressively pick up open trips at 24 hrs out or 11:00 AM the day prior, whichever is earlier.
2. You can pick up a trip with your days of availability or one less.
3. Once you pick up or are assigned a trip, you are not phone available before report time. No periods of reserve availability before a report either.
4. On last day of availability, if not assigned a trip, you are released at 12:00 for long call and 15:00 for short call.
5. 14:00 rest between flights in domicile, and a 9 hours in hotel room on layovers vs. 9 or 10 hours rest in domicile and FAR rest on layovers for CAL.
6. 24 in 7 free from duty must be in domicile at UAL.
7. Aggressive pick ups at UAL are not restricted one you get close to guarantee. You can continue to pick up flying until reaching monthly cap.
8. For domestic reserves, no movable days.
9. Only a 70 hr guarantee vs. 76/72 at CAL. If given the choice, I would take the 70 hrs with the added protections.
None of these difference is earth shattering, but taken in whole, it is a huge difference in QOL and schedulers ability to abuse you. As a commuting reserve at UAL before the furlough, I was able to to fly into base on my first day of reserve rather that the previous day much more often than not. It sounds like that is mostly not an option at CAL.
By watching open flying and picking up trips, I was many times able to pick up a three day trip with a late report on the first of 4 days on. Didn't have to be phone available or sit reserve before. That's more time at home and less ability for scheduling to f--k you. That same trip would usually get back to base in the evening on the third day. With 14 hours before you could be used again, the only thing you are legal for on your last day would be an afternoon turn( they can't move your days off to stick you with a longer trip). If they haven't assigned one, you are released at 12:00 for long call or 15:00 for short call, and you go home.
Obviously, it doesn't always work this well. By picking up trips or short calls aggressively, I would say that I ended up with something tolerable much more often than I was bent over by scheduling. And, as a commuter, I was home my first morning of reserve and/or my last night of reserve most of the time. I don't think I can count on that same luxury when I get my "recall/new hire opertunity" to CAL. It sounds like I will be a whipping boy on a continual basis, it was a part time problem at UAL.
B
01-06-2012, 10:49 PM
#47
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Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Left - Dodge Caravan
Posts: 357
Originally Posted by 13n144e
...the one section we didn't cave on was Scope. One of our "work rules" which UAL guys, particularly furloughees like SCR, may come to appreciate if we ever get a JCBA concluded (which is looking pretty remote).
UAL had a MUCH better scope clause than the current CAL CBA and unwisely traded it for more 400's orders, and some magic beans. Any scope clause the furloughed UAL pilots will enjoy in the future will not just "carry over" from the current CAL CBA. The scope clause in the JCBA has yet to be fought for and won...
Lift your head up, it is time to stop thinking it is either work rules OR pay. We need to demand both WHEN (not if) we get our JCBA.
SP
01-07-2012, 02:04 AM
#48
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Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: 787 CA
Posts: 423
Originally Posted by SONORA PASS
UAL had a MUCH better scope clause than the current CAL CBA and unwisely traded it for more 400's orders, and some magic beans. Any scope clause the furloughed UAL pilots will enjoy in the future will not just "carry over" from the current CAL CBA. The scope clause in the JCBA has yet to be fought for and won...
Originally Posted by SONORA PASS
Lift your head up, it is time to stop thinking it is either work rules OR pay. We need to demand both WHEN (not if) we get our JCBA.
Last edited by 13n144e; 01-07-2012 at 04:48 AM.
01-07-2012, 05:44 AM
#49
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: 73 CA EWR
Posts: 514
Originally Posted by dexim
The WHEN just go farther away. After Pierce did his little deal the company decided that next time they could come back to the table is around Jan 17.
"Management has informed the JNC that they are planning to account for the new FTDT regulations in their next Scheduling section counterproposal and that they will therefore require more time to complete that proposal. They have informed us that they will not be prepared to pass their counterproposal before Jan. 17."
Last edited by Blockoutblockin; 01-07-2012 at 05:47 AM. Reason: Added quote
01-07-2012, 06:18 AM
#50
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Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: 737 Cap
Posts: 451
Originally Posted by EWR73FO
What is monthly cap and do intl reserves have moveable days? How do you verification of 9 hours in the hotel room?
On the 9 hours behind the door, we call the crew desk when we reach the room and give them a hard time that we'll be leaving it. They are allowed to reduce our report time without concurrence domestically to 30 minutes to minimize delays, and they generally do so in such cases.
Scott
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