UAL Work Rules
01-06-2012 | 03:41 PM
#41
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Nice review of Reserve life at CAL.
As a comparison, as a reserve at UAL
1. You can aggressively pick up open trips at 24 hrs out or 11:00 AM the day prior, whichever is earlier.
2. You can pick up a trip with your days of availability or one less.
3. Once you pick up or are assigned a trip, you are not phone available before report time. No periods of reserve availability before a report either.
4. On last day of availability, if not assigned a trip, you are released at 12:00 for long call and 15:00 for short call.
B
As a comparison, as a reserve at UAL
1. You can aggressively pick up open trips at 24 hrs out or 11:00 AM the day prior, whichever is earlier.
2. You can pick up a trip with your days of availability or one less.
3. Once you pick up or are assigned a trip, you are not phone available before report time. No periods of reserve availability before a report either.
4. On last day of availability, if not assigned a trip, you are released at 12:00 for long call and 15:00 for short call.
B
Great overview. I do have two corrections and one piece of additional information that has worked well for me in the past.
1. You can aggressively pick up open trips at 28 hrs out or 11:00 AM the day prior, whichever is earlier. (Maybe that's why you kept missing out on those sweet trips.
) 20-J-2-f
4. On last day of availability, if not assigned a trip, you are released at 10:00 AM for long call and 15:00 for short call.
5-G-1-e-(6)-(b)
Also, the top 20% of available reserves in domicile/fleet/seat are not included in the normal reserve profile. In other words, if you are a senior reserve, or a lineholder slumming for a better schedule, the top 20% will get their 12 days off placed where ever they bid for them. (IOW, if you are too junior to get weekends off as a lineholder, you can bid reserve with weekends off and the company will have to honor it; as long as you are in the top 20% of available reserves.)
5-G-1-e-(9)
01-06-2012 | 04:04 PM
#43
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Then I'm impressed. If its been awhile for you and you can still dredge this stuff up, you did really well.
I've been living it for the last 5 years, and I still screw it up on occassion.
(Which is why I included the contract citations. I had to make sure I knew what I was talking about.)
Hog
I've been living it for the last 5 years, and I still screw it up on occassion.
(Which is why I included the contract citations. I had to make sure I knew what I was talking about.
)Hog
01-06-2012 | 04:43 PM
#44
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 426
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From: 787 CA
Keep your beer until you can figure out how to correctly capitalize.
.
Last edited by 13n144e; 01-07-2012 at 02:57 AM.
01-06-2012 | 04:59 PM
#45
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Don't waste your time on this guy. He only cares about himself! Look at his other post.
Last edited by dexim; 01-06-2012 at 05:53 PM.
01-06-2012 | 05:04 PM
#46
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From: Le Bus
01-06-2012 | 10:36 PM
#47
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Joined: Oct 2010
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From: IAH 737 CA
Nice review of Reserve life at CAL.
As a comparison, as a reserve at UAL
1. You can aggressively pick up open trips at 24 hrs out or 11:00 AM the day prior, whichever is earlier.
2. You can pick up a trip with your days of availability or one less.
3. Once you pick up or are assigned a trip, you are not phone available before report time. No periods of reserve availability before a report either.
4. On last day of availability, if not assigned a trip, you are released at 12:00 for long call and 15:00 for short call.
5. 14:00 rest between flights in domicile, and a 9 hours in hotel room on layovers vs. 9 or 10 hours rest in domicile and FAR rest on layovers for CAL.
6. 24 in 7 free from duty must be in domicile at UAL.
7. Aggressive pick ups at UAL are not restricted one you get close to guarantee. You can continue to pick up flying until reaching monthly cap.
8. For domestic reserves, no movable days.
9. Only a 70 hr guarantee vs. 76/72 at CAL. If given the choice, I would take the 70 hrs with the added protections.
None of these difference is earth shattering, but taken in whole, it is a huge difference in QOL and schedulers ability to abuse you. As a commuting reserve at UAL before the furlough, I was able to to fly into base on my first day of reserve rather that the previous day much more often than not. It sounds like that is mostly not an option at CAL.
By watching open flying and picking up trips, I was many times able to pick up a three day trip with a late report on the first of 4 days on. Didn't have to be phone available or sit reserve before. That's more time at home and less ability for scheduling to f--k you. That same trip would usually get back to base in the evening on the third day. With 14 hours before you could be used again, the only thing you are legal for on your last day would be an afternoon turn( they can't move your days off to stick you with a longer trip). If they haven't assigned one, you are released at 12:00 for long call or 15:00 for short call, and you go home.
Obviously, it doesn't always work this well. By picking up trips or short calls aggressively, I would say that I ended up with something tolerable much more often than I was bent over by scheduling. And, as a commuter, I was home my first morning of reserve and/or my last night of reserve most of the time. I don't think I can count on that same luxury when I get my "recall/new hire opertunity" to CAL. It sounds like I will be a whipping boy on a continual basis, it was a part time problem at UAL.
B
As a comparison, as a reserve at UAL
1. You can aggressively pick up open trips at 24 hrs out or 11:00 AM the day prior, whichever is earlier.
2. You can pick up a trip with your days of availability or one less.
3. Once you pick up or are assigned a trip, you are not phone available before report time. No periods of reserve availability before a report either.
4. On last day of availability, if not assigned a trip, you are released at 12:00 for long call and 15:00 for short call.
5. 14:00 rest between flights in domicile, and a 9 hours in hotel room on layovers vs. 9 or 10 hours rest in domicile and FAR rest on layovers for CAL.
6. 24 in 7 free from duty must be in domicile at UAL.
7. Aggressive pick ups at UAL are not restricted one you get close to guarantee. You can continue to pick up flying until reaching monthly cap.
8. For domestic reserves, no movable days.
9. Only a 70 hr guarantee vs. 76/72 at CAL. If given the choice, I would take the 70 hrs with the added protections.
None of these difference is earth shattering, but taken in whole, it is a huge difference in QOL and schedulers ability to abuse you. As a commuting reserve at UAL before the furlough, I was able to to fly into base on my first day of reserve rather that the previous day much more often than not. It sounds like that is mostly not an option at CAL.
By watching open flying and picking up trips, I was many times able to pick up a three day trip with a late report on the first of 4 days on. Didn't have to be phone available or sit reserve before. That's more time at home and less ability for scheduling to f--k you. That same trip would usually get back to base in the evening on the third day. With 14 hours before you could be used again, the only thing you are legal for on your last day would be an afternoon turn( they can't move your days off to stick you with a longer trip). If they haven't assigned one, you are released at 12:00 for long call or 15:00 for short call, and you go home.
Obviously, it doesn't always work this well. By picking up trips or short calls aggressively, I would say that I ended up with something tolerable much more often than I was bent over by scheduling. And, as a commuter, I was home my first morning of reserve and/or my last night of reserve most of the time. I don't think I can count on that same luxury when I get my "recall/new hire opertunity" to CAL. It sounds like I will be a whipping boy on a continual basis, it was a part time problem at UAL.
B
01-06-2012 | 10:49 PM
#48
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 357
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From: Left - Dodge Caravan
UAL had a MUCH better scope clause than the current CAL CBA and unwisely traded it for more 400's orders, and some magic beans. Any scope clause the furloughed UAL pilots will enjoy in the future will not just "carry over" from the current CAL CBA. The scope clause in the JCBA has yet to be fought for and won...
Lift your head up, it is time to stop thinking it is either work rules OR pay. We need to demand both WHEN (not if) we get our JCBA.
SP
01-07-2012 | 02:04 AM
#49
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 426
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From: 787 CA
UAL had a MUCH better scope clause than the current CAL CBA and unwisely traded it for more 400's orders, and some magic beans. Any scope clause the furloughed UAL pilots will enjoy in the future will not just "carry over" from the current CAL CBA. The scope clause in the JCBA has yet to be fought for and won...
I never said I expected anything less than both work rules and pay and have no intention of accepting anything less. Not sure where you got the idea I would, but thanks for the pep talk. However, I see the realistic prospects for a JCBA anytime in the near future ('12-'13) dwindling rapidly based on comments I've heard from both sides following recent events and it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. The company has just terminated the domicile protection provision and once this bid comes out they will start moving around metal whether anyone likes it or not. We'll see how pragmatically this is dealt with by both pilot groups but I see absolutely no reason to be hopeful that anything other than protracted juvenile accusations and continued blame games will be the result. Cue Dexim with more sophomoric "fight's on" rhetoric...
Last edited by 13n144e; 01-07-2012 at 04:48 AM.
01-07-2012 | 04:14 AM
#50
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Joined: Dec 2011
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The WHEN just go farther away. After Pierce did his little deal the company decided that next time they could come back to the table is around Jan 17.
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