Scope 6-14-12
06-16-2012 | 03:38 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,144
Likes: 204
News Flash:
This merger was done for one and only one reason....To defeat the CAL scope clause, the strongest in the industry. CAL Management couldn't defeat it without merging with another company that already had in place weaker, and more liberal language.
You give up 70 seat jets, 1200 pilots or more lose their mainline jobs through attrition. That will take 2 years max to see play out. Also, look for a ripple effect:
1. Regionals lose pilots as they grow frustrated with the career progression.
2. Pilot Shortage announced by ATA (A4A), FAA, and ALPA jumps on the band wagon to: A. pursue lowering flight time minimums, B. sponsor and allow age 70 legislation, C. Further degradation of the career with reduced earnings, lower quality of life, and way too much domestic work and all the reassignments, and reduced rest that goes with it.
The ripple effect will be eternally damming to the profession, and far out-weighs any short term benefits of a "signing bonus," or "pay raise" in section 3 of the CBA.
This merger was done for one and only one reason....To defeat the CAL scope clause, the strongest in the industry. CAL Management couldn't defeat it without merging with another company that already had in place weaker, and more liberal language.
You give up 70 seat jets, 1200 pilots or more lose their mainline jobs through attrition. That will take 2 years max to see play out. Also, look for a ripple effect:
1. Regionals lose pilots as they grow frustrated with the career progression.
2. Pilot Shortage announced by ATA (A4A), FAA, and ALPA jumps on the band wagon to: A. pursue lowering flight time minimums, B. sponsor and allow age 70 legislation, C. Further degradation of the career with reduced earnings, lower quality of life, and way too much domestic work and all the reassignments, and reduced rest that goes with it.
The ripple effect will be eternally damming to the profession, and far out-weighs any short term benefits of a "signing bonus," or "pay raise" in section 3 of the CBA.
cost effective(read poor) work rules and pay CAL has.
06-16-2012 | 07:03 AM
#32
Keep Calm Chive ON
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,086
Likes: 0
From: Boeing's Plastic Jet Button Pusher - 787
Our Mgt was in the motion of offering (CAL) a "DAL+$1". The CAL Pilot Group saw the smoke & mirrors of the existing DAL PWA as it pertained to SCOPE when comparing it's constraints to the current CAL SCOPE, IE-CAL would have had to conceded SCOPE further by adopting "DAL+$1"......So Yes, CAL Pilots were hell-bent to not further allow the RJ's 'nose in the tent', let alone the camel's a$$ with MORE 76 seaters.
If your current DAL T/A promotes introducing more 76+seaters, have at it. If your advocating that UNITED Pilot's (L-ua/co) allow MORE RJ-feed/size, to that, you'll get a tall glass of "pound sand" from the collective UNITED Pilot Group.
06-16-2012 | 07:17 AM
#33
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,282
Likes: 0
From: A320 Cap
That's a good one. I bet if you look at the mainline vs regional total block hours it is the same if not more than the other Legacies. CAL was flying XJT on routes a 70 seater should be flying. They lose some revenue on that but more than make it up with the
cost effective(read poor) work rules and pay CAL has.
cost effective(read poor) work rules and pay CAL has.
06-29-2012 | 08:04 PM
#34
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
Let's see Bill.....
Our Mgt was in the motion of offering (CAL) a "DAL+$1". The CAL Pilot Group saw the smoke & mirrors of the existing DAL PWA as it pertained to SCOPE when comparing it's constraints to the current CAL SCOPE, IE-CAL would have had to conceded SCOPE further by adopting "DAL+$1"......So Yes, CAL Pilots were hell-bent to not further allow the RJ's 'nose in the tent', let alone the camel's a$$ with MORE 76 seaters.
If your current DAL T/A promotes introducing more 76+seaters, have at it. If your advocating that UNITED Pilot's (L-ua/co) allow MORE RJ-feed/size, to that, you'll get a tall glass of "pound sand" from the collective UNITED Pilot Group.
Our Mgt was in the motion of offering (CAL) a "DAL+$1". The CAL Pilot Group saw the smoke & mirrors of the existing DAL PWA as it pertained to SCOPE when comparing it's constraints to the current CAL SCOPE, IE-CAL would have had to conceded SCOPE further by adopting "DAL+$1"......So Yes, CAL Pilots were hell-bent to not further allow the RJ's 'nose in the tent', let alone the camel's a$$ with MORE 76 seaters.
If your current DAL T/A promotes introducing more 76+seaters, have at it. If your advocating that UNITED Pilot's (L-ua/co) allow MORE RJ-feed/size, to that, you'll get a tall glass of "pound sand" from the collective UNITED Pilot Group.
To each his own though.
06-30-2012 | 03:53 AM
#35
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 650
Likes: 5
From: 787 Capt.
Next year about 3000 pilots will be retiring from all the majors. Most of the replacements will come from the regionals. The year after that another 3000 will retire. The swamp will be draining fast at the regionals. Where are they going to find replacement pilots especially with the new ATP rule going into effect next year. The average flight time of pilots hired at Sky West today is in the range of 700-1000 hours. I see a serious predicament over the horizon for all airlines.
06-30-2012 | 08:09 AM
#36
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 0
From: 756 Left Side
There will never be a shortage of qualified pilots. I know dozens of "qualified pilots".. just not dozen of guys willing to work for peanuts and poor workrules.
By shifting from 50s to more 76s on the Delta Side, they have given their DCI carriers an extension with regards to pilot numbers.
On top of that, allowing your (Delta) reserves to work more during the busy summer months, you have helped the company with regards to staffing.
Anyone wanna bet that Delta Does NOT Hire this year?
And when do those 717's show up? sometime in 2013?
Motch
By shifting from 50s to more 76s on the Delta Side, they have given their DCI carriers an extension with regards to pilot numbers.
On top of that, allowing your (Delta) reserves to work more during the busy summer months, you have helped the company with regards to staffing.
Anyone wanna bet that Delta Does NOT Hire this year?
And when do those 717's show up? sometime in 2013?
Motch
06-30-2012 | 03:51 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 520
Likes: 0
Motch, u will see what will become of their Ta. They didnt hold the line, they just made express more profitable and paid for their raises, albeit, mediocre with the savings in parking 50's, getting more 76's, more efficiencies, and retiring the fat. Their Ta loses jobs and decreases scope for a small pittance. Pathetic, but what did u expect
06-30-2012 | 08:07 PM
#38
Banned
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 798
Likes: 0
From: 757 Capt
Next year about 3000 pilots will be retiring from all the majors. Most of the replacements will come from the regionals. The year after that another 3000 will retire. The swamp will be draining fast at the regionals. Where are they going to find replacement pilots especially with the new ATP rule going into effect next year. The average flight time of pilots hired at Sky West today is in the range of 700-1000 hours. I see a serious predicament over the horizon for all airlines.
PIPE
06-30-2012 | 10:12 PM
#39
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
Likes: 0
From: 767er Captain
Motch, u will see what will become of their Ta. They didnt hold the line, they just made express more profitable and paid for their raises, albeit, mediocre with the savings in parking 50's, getting more 76's, more efficiencies, and retiring the fat. Their Ta loses jobs and decreases scope for a small pittance. Pathetic, but what did u expect
07-01-2012 | 03:41 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 400
Likes: 0
There will never be a shortage of qualified pilots. I know dozens of "qualified pilots".. just not dozen of guys willing to work for peanuts and poor workrules.
By shifting from 50s to more 76s on the Delta Side, they have given their DCI carriers an extension with regards to pilot numbers.
On top of that, allowing your (Delta) reserves to work more during the busy summer months, you have helped the company with regards to staffing.
Anyone wanna bet that Delta Does NOT Hire this year?
And when do those 717's show up? sometime in 2013?
Motch
By shifting from 50s to more 76s on the Delta Side, they have given their DCI carriers an extension with regards to pilot numbers.
On top of that, allowing your (Delta) reserves to work more during the busy summer months, you have helped the company with regards to staffing.
Anyone wanna bet that Delta Does NOT Hire this year?
And when do those 717's show up? sometime in 2013?
Motch
Second, imagine how much it will cost an airline to bring them back to life and be safe at a place like LAX or ORD. Imagine the sim hours, IOE and safety risk management. It's much steeper than one can envision being an active line guy. I think the airlines will be reluctant to tap that labor pool and will gobble up the active guys well before they even approAch this challenge.
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