757Driver

Should we not trust you then? Although I see exactly what your trying to say, you use way to broad a brush painting us all as Scabs and Saviours and that simply isn't true.

I think WE both work at gigantic crap holes at the moment and only an excellent contract and a whole-scale management purge will change that.

Agree and quite frankly its high time we put an end to that.

Airhoss

Sensible and well written...

Thank you.

CitationD

I was thinking the same thing. I especially loved the comment about our pubs and manuals and how little we know about the aircraft we fly, having recently completed the "training" program down in IAH myself.

Seriously guys, the sooner we get over this petty BS, the better all our careers will be.

SUX4U

I was thinking the exact same thing! But you forgot to add in Skywest, Compass and Pinnacle to the list of identical uniforms. UAL obviously has it's issues, but from an regional puke's standpoint atleast their uniforms are unique and easy on the eyes.

CitationD

I missed the uniform comment - priceless! Hopefully the new "midnight blue" (black) uniforms with the Soviet Sub Commander stripes will be more to his liking. God I never realized how awful we are...

Rocketiii

OK, well the crap is too thick to listen to this anymore.

You can have your own opinions, but not your own facts....

The SFO update talked about the poor UAL FO that had a medical problem and just needed to get checked back out to return to the line. Well that is 10% of it. The BASH CAL little guy opinion piece didnt mention tha he was a problem from day one. He was a problem in training and walked off in the middle of a 7 day trip only to try and get his job back later. He told his superiors how HE was going to do it or else. For clarification, ask his sim partner how glad the guy was to be gone...

As far as the rest of the spewage.... I have flown with at least 15% of the UAL guys. I guess that is enough of a perecentage to have an opinion. Many are good and they have a quality work ethic. Many show up late, complain and spew that stuff in the cockpit about where they deserve to be on the SLI. I also try to keep that stuff out of the cockpit, or actually anywhere as its out of our control. Some are good pilots, some were obviously "preselected" during a phone interview. Some are cool, some are literally out of their mind, like I have been told about the guy who talks to aliens. Some had an aggressivley poor attitude during training. Others worked hard because that is in their nature.

But every group has a cross section of good vs bad. The difference is, dont come over to our company and say how bad it is. Actually, let me put it this way: Dont come over to our company and put US down because our contract is bad.

You all are too self-absorbed to see the irony. The "brain surgeon" mentality they force feed you all in training is not appropriate.

Our contract is bad. But that does not mean because we fly under it that we are pu$$ies or anything else. I finally had to stop an FO recently who ranted on and on about "how we wouldnt do that at UAL" or I wouldnt do this or that. He bragged about picking his crew meal and other QOL things that were so great. He was putting OUR group down because of statements like CAL guys saying "thats just how it is...". Like we should fight it. Like he is the first one who thought of that!! Of course it has been fought, and lost. It isnt rolling over when you do what is allowed by the contract.

The more ridiculous pilot I would think is the one WHO KNOWINGLY CAME HERE after dozens of threads about how the contract was so bad! And still came, then *****! AND THEN CONDEMN US FOR FLYING UNDER IT WITHOUT PROTESTS. Are you kidding? That isnt a culture. You cant go to an airline and just fly the parts of the contract you like.

Oh, back to more irony. Said FO is bragging about how tought they were at UNITED. How their guys wouldnt put up with this or get walked all over. ALL THE TIME SITTING THERE IN HIS CAL UNIFORM PULLING MY GEAR!!!! How did the UAL work out for you?

The fact is our pay is better, our work rules less good. A large part of the pilot group doesnt face the scheduling woes you talk about. It does face me and everyone who enters the airplane in a junior capacity though. But not everyone here. There are thousands here that get better pay at CAL and work decent schedules. Dont take that as me being ok with the work rules, because I am hurt by them seriously in my position. But to bash CAL like its some Guatemalan airline is ridiculous.

The crap about how UAL bought CAL, good grief. A good quarter after a decade of billions in losses. Having every UAL pilot I would encounter humping my leg about when will we merge so they can have our management was quickly forgotten. This is a hybrid managment now. CAL was never like this before. Few cancellations, MX, IT problems, very low customer service complaints compared to UAL, on and on. The contract sucked, but the operation was good. Ive had it with those insane comments.


The seniority list integration about UAL guys getting ahead of our captains and being furloughed to make the merger happen is the biggest joke and where you all lose any credibility. We all lost positions, domiciles and equipment during that period. You all wanted to be picked up by anyone. You can claim your secret tapes or whatever, but it doesnt freaking matter. You should see it from our side: A UAL FO in a CAL uniform telling us how great UAL was, how he/she has a couple of years of service and should be integrated with a guy like me that has 5 years as captain, is the captain on the flight now, and a similar original hire date. How our guys on UAL jumpseats have the UAL pilots asking about the captain lines in EWR and implying thats where they will jumpt to, even though they are a bottom feeding bus pilot.

So enough of all this bs. I wont put it as eloquently, if you dont want to work here, please dont. Do us all a favor. If you have a good work ethic and you want to get your old pay and fly, go for it. Dont cry through training, call in sick for a few months so that you can come out holding a line, or get missed trips and UTCs, show up late, complain about our contract and how many hotels you passed on the way to ours or whatever gripe you have. And dont come here in my cockpit telling me how our group has no backbone, just gets rolled over, etc, when its the contract that allows it, that I voted against and cant pick and choose what I will follow. Dont show your ignorance by choosing to work here when the contract was widely discussed prior to you taking the job and then bashing our guys for being legacy CAL guys and always rolling over. And please dont do it as an FO on the aircraft Ive been captain on for 5 years and you dont have 5 years of service and want to be merged next to me on the list.

And if you are like that, which it sounds like you are, please dont go out with the crew. It saves me from buying you all the beer, which is what I do.

Old UCAL CA

So many children, so few adults.

Adults are respected, children are cared for by caregivers according to their own rules. It isn't a difficult riddle.

SpecialTracking

Well, there you have it. Straight from Rocketiii's keyboard.

Slammer

Next time you fly, tell the the Captain and Flight Attendants your opinion of us CAL folks. In fact, speak it in the crew room, since your vast experepience with the CAL employees gives you so much credibility. I'm sure they will be all ears...

Captain Bligh

Rocketii...

I on the contrary welcome the cultural dose of chlorination to the L-CAL gene pool. These, "discontented" L-UAL people that come so "angry" bring with them a large pool of experience working in an environment and a relationship that is more what I have always expected from my career and employer. It will take far longer to "whip these UAL guys and gals into shape", than our current departmental leadership has, before age and health reasons usher them to the door. It will be very hard if not impossible for our current management to hire all of the UAL unionists into the fold (like they have done at CAL) so that they can continue to have their way with the pilots, like one might choose an evening companion from some giant book of call girls in a third world country.

I hope some of your arguments are valid, like the ones about seniority. I do think that Bethune's idea of letting them go under and buying the pieces would have been better for your career. Don't forget though that it was CAL's undercutting that largely made them unable to compete. Not something to be proud of if you're a labor advocate. I am looking forward to the cultural broadening.