Originally Posted by oldmako

Liquid,

While I will allow this his summation was harsh and lacked diplomacy, it was his opinion of the difference between the OLD United, and CAL. Your response is exactly what Glen Tilton used to say when we pointed out how UAL had slipped under his watch. The GOAL ought to be to improve working conditions and to improve the contract, not learn how to toil under a substandard one. So before you chastise him for his opinion, realize that he's using a different yardstick than you are. "Why don't you quit" is a knee jerk response, but a jerky response.

We have plenty of guys at sUAL who are a pain in the rear to fly with and tote El Heffes water. They're the same guys who did so under previous sUAL CEOs. This week I boarded a stifling hot 757 with a perfectly operable APU. Well my, didn't we save some gas! Never mind that the pax were all looking at one another with the big Whisky Tango Fox expression. This captain doesn't have UAL "culture" and is Jeffs type of guy. They're the guys who fly junk, wait for the van, accept wholesale changes to SOP with zero training, pop the brake early, and generally allow our contract, to be trampled by the company. Give UAL an inch every day, and they will take a mile over time.

Prior to UAL, I was a long time commuter puke. As a new hire on IOE I was astonished at how GREAT I was treated at UAL. During breakfast the Captain was good-naturedly complaining about his meal. It was amazing compared to what I was used to and I thought he was nuts. He caught me looking at him with amazement and said to me, "I know what you're thinking! But, the day you stop complaining is the day they start taking stuff away!"

How right he was. Probably some of the best advice I got on IOE. WE MUST not allow them to run roughshod over us. Our culture is worth fighting for and 47dog is doing so.

James is proud.

Originally Posted by Rocketiii

OK, well the crap is too thick to listen to this anymore.

You can have your own opinions, but not your own facts....

The SFO update talked about the poor UAL FO that had a medical problem and just needed to get checked back out to return to the line. Well that is 10% of it. The BASH CAL little guy opinion piece didnt mention tha he was a problem from day one. He was a problem in training and walked off in the middle of a 7 day trip only to try and get his job back later. He told his superiors how HE was going to do it or else. For clarification, ask his sim partner how glad the guy was to be gone...

As far as the rest of the spewage.... I have flown with at least 15% of the UAL guys. I guess that is enough of a perecentage to have an opinion. Many are good and they have a quality work ethic. Many show up late, complain and spew that stuff in the cockpit about where they deserve to be on the SLI. I also try to keep that stuff out of the cockpit, or actually anywhere as its out of our control. Some are good pilots, some were obviously "preselected" during a phone interview. Some are cool, some are literally out of their mind, like I have been told about the guy who talks to aliens. Some had an aggressivley poor attitude during training. Others worked hard because that is in their nature.

But every group has a cross section of good vs bad. The difference is, dont come over to our company and say how bad it is. Actually, let me put it this way: Dont come over to our company and put US down because our contract is bad.

You all are too self-absorbed to see the irony. The "brain surgeon" mentality they force feed you all in training is not appropriate.

Our contract is bad. But that does not mean because we fly under it that we are pu$$ies or anything else. I finally had to stop an FO recently who ranted on and on about "how we wouldnt do that at UAL" or I wouldnt do this or that. He bragged about picking his crew meal and other QOL things that were so great. He was putting OUR group down because of statements like CAL guys saying "thats just how it is...". Like we should fight it. Like he is the first one who thought of that!! Of course it has been fought, and lost. It isnt rolling over when you do what is allowed by the contract.

The more ridiculous pilot I would think is the one WHO KNOWINGLY CAME HERE after dozens of threads about how the contract was so bad! And still came, then *****! AND THEN CONDEMN US FOR FLYING UNDER IT WITHOUT PROTESTS. Are you kidding? That isnt a culture. You cant go to an airline and just fly the parts of the contract you like.

Oh, back to more irony. Said FO is bragging about how tought they were at UNITED. How their guys wouldnt put up with this or get walked all over. ALL THE TIME SITTING THERE IN HIS CAL UNIFORM PULLING MY GEAR!!!! How did the UAL work out for you?

The fact is our pay is better, our work rules less good. A large part of the pilot group doesnt face the scheduling woes you talk about. It does face me and everyone who enters the airplane in a junior capacity though. But not everyone here. There are thousands here that get better pay at CAL and work decent schedules. Dont take that as me being ok with the work rules, because I am hurt by them seriously in my position. But to bash CAL like its some Guatemalan airline is ridiculous.

The crap about how UAL bought CAL, good grief. A good quarter after a decade of billions in losses. Having every UAL pilot I would encounter humping my leg about when will we merge so they can have our management was quickly forgotten. This is a hybrid managment now. CAL was never like this before. Few cancellations, MX, IT problems, very low customer service complaints compared to UAL, on and on. The contract sucked, but the operation was good. Ive had it with those insane comments.


The seniority list integration about UAL guys getting ahead of our captains and being furloughed to make the merger happen is the biggest joke and where you all lose any credibility. We all lost positions, domiciles and equipment during that period. You all wanted to be picked up by anyone. You can claim your secret tapes or whatever, but it doesnt freaking matter. You should see it from our side: A UAL FO in a CAL uniform telling us how great UAL was, how he/she has a couple of years of service and should be integrated with a guy like me that has 5 years as captain, is the captain on the flight now, and a similar original hire date. How our guys on UAL jumpseats have the UAL pilots asking about the captain lines in EWR and implying thats where they will jumpt to, even though they are a bottom feeding bus pilot.

So enough of all this bs. I wont put it as eloquently, if you dont want to work here, please dont. Do us all a favor. If you have a good work ethic and you want to get your old pay and fly, go for it. Dont cry through training, call in sick for a few months so that you can come out holding a line, or get missed trips and UTCs, show up late, complain about our contract and how many hotels you passed on the way to ours or whatever gripe you have. And dont come here in my cockpit telling me how our group has no backbone, just gets rolled over, etc, when its the contract that allows it, that I voted against and cant pick and choose what I will follow. Dont show your ignorance by choosing to work here when the contract was widely discussed prior to you taking the job and then bashing our guys for being legacy CAL guys and always rolling over. And please dont do it as an FO on the aircraft Ive been captain on for 5 years and you dont have 5 years of service and want to be merged next to me on the list.

And if you are like that, which it sounds like you are, please dont go out with the crew. It saves me from buying you all the beer, which is what I do.

Originally Posted by EWR73FO

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) --

The United Airlines brand name will take over, ...

...UAL shareholders will own 55% of the company.