TA Overview
11-14-2012 | 06:43 AM
#121
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,750
Likes: 0
From: 737 CA
There are so many concessions and gotchas contained in this POC, that it ought to be a slam dunk NO vote for MOST of us. I'm astonished at how bad this thing is.
Sled, as for the "gets" in this TA, I submit that you're picking corn out of something warm and steamy. I don't even know what to say, so I won't waste any time with your opinion. Have a great career.
As for the TA
The pay is marginal. End of contract Pay is industry leading
The scope is a show stopper. Ever see an RJ in SWA colors?
what about DAL and AMR? Do we compete with them? Our scope is the most restrictive vs DAL and AMR
The retro is completely unacceptable and an insult.
I agree with the insult part.
The reserve rules SUCK. 2.5 hours? In DC? In NYC? In SFO? LAX?
That's 3.5 to push or 30 min less than what we have now. AND, if less than 3 hours call out you can park in pay parking and expense it.
Involuntary JM - nope. They need more bodies? Hire them.
at 100% pay premium AFTER they have SRMed for 100% pay premium with no takers. I can live with that. BTW, you mentioned SWA earlier. They have IJA (involuntary junior assigned)
Increased Medical and Dental costs. Concessionary.
agreed.
The training pay is a joke.
3.75/3.0 vs 2.8? A month of transition pays 90 hours vs 84 now. PC pay is 34% higher (3.75 v 2.8)
VACA pay is concessionary.
compared to what we have? that don't make no sense James. 3.25 is a 16% increase.
Add on reassignments
etc
etc
etc
Its up to US now that the JNC has failed us so completely. Get out the NO vote.
7B in unrestricted cash. The only thing "industry leading" was the hubris with which this was unveiled.
Sled, as for the "gets" in this TA, I submit that you're picking corn out of something warm and steamy. I don't even know what to say, so I won't waste any time with your opinion. Have a great career.
As for the TA
The pay is marginal. End of contract Pay is industry leading
The scope is a show stopper. Ever see an RJ in SWA colors?
what about DAL and AMR? Do we compete with them? Our scope is the most restrictive vs DAL and AMR
The retro is completely unacceptable and an insult.
I agree with the insult part.
The reserve rules SUCK. 2.5 hours? In DC? In NYC? In SFO? LAX?
That's 3.5 to push or 30 min less than what we have now. AND, if less than 3 hours call out you can park in pay parking and expense it.
Involuntary JM - nope. They need more bodies? Hire them.
at 100% pay premium AFTER they have SRMed for 100% pay premium with no takers. I can live with that. BTW, you mentioned SWA earlier. They have IJA (involuntary junior assigned)
Increased Medical and Dental costs. Concessionary.
agreed.
The training pay is a joke.
3.75/3.0 vs 2.8? A month of transition pays 90 hours vs 84 now. PC pay is 34% higher (3.75 v 2.8)
VACA pay is concessionary.
compared to what we have? that don't make no sense James. 3.25 is a 16% increase.
Add on reassignments
etc
etc
etc
Its up to US now that the JNC has failed us so completely. Get out the NO vote.
7B in unrestricted cash. The only thing "industry leading" was the hubris with which this was unveiled.
Sled
11-14-2012 | 06:48 AM
#122
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
The MRJ 70STD has a range of 820 NM and a MGTOW of just over 81,000 lbs.
The MRJ 70 ER has a range of 1470 NM, but really pushes the limit on MGTOW @ 85,969 lbs.
And the proposed scope allows nothing larger then 76 seats.
11-14-2012 | 06:54 AM
#123
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,773
Likes: 18
ALPA precedent: Mesaba furloughs got inserted at their "spots" on our list based on company equipment and their original DOH. The so-called relative integration. They are credited with the longevity that they would have had without furlough.
Sounds like a good DFR lawsuit against national if you get any different than our lowly regional.
Sounds like a good DFR lawsuit against national if you get any different than our lowly regional.
11-14-2012 | 07:01 AM
#124
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
I just want to make sure I'm understanding you....... I was hired at UAL in 99 and have 6 years and a few months of active service at UAL. If this TA is voted in I go to 4 year pay, down from the 7 year pay I would be at now. When the SLI is finished I might find myself junior to a 2008 CAL hire and remain at 4 years of longevity.
I can understand how I might eat a giant **** sandwich with the SLI but to say that my longevity is tied to the CAL pilot senior to me on the new SLI is the lettuce and tomato on my giant **** sandwich.
I know that I am going to get screwed in the SLI but to actually have longevity taken away from me that I already have is crazy! I was hired at UAL over 13 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You sound like you are ok with this part of the TA because I get a raise from 7th year UAL current pay of $86 an hour to the TA rate of $112 an hour on 4th year pay.
I can already smell a class action lawsuit brewing.
I can understand how I might eat a giant **** sandwich with the SLI but to say that my longevity is tied to the CAL pilot senior to me on the new SLI is the lettuce and tomato on my giant **** sandwich.
I know that I am going to get screwed in the SLI but to actually have longevity taken away from me that I already have is crazy! I was hired at UAL over 13 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You sound like you are ok with this part of the TA because I get a raise from 7th year UAL current pay of $86 an hour to the TA rate of $112 an hour on 4th year pay.
I can already smell a class action lawsuit brewing.
Sled
You, sir, have been bitten by greed. And with your "yes" vote, you are culpable in the continual slide of this profession down a deep, dark abyss.
From my family to yours, thank you for nothing.
SCR
11-14-2012 | 07:02 AM
#125
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,750
Likes: 0
From: 737 CA
No offense, but as you say, you don't stand in the shoes of those that have been furloughed. Every pilot group has received full furlough credit with the exception of the 1436. This is a play by Pierce to gain an edge and staple us to the bottom of the list. You either do the right thing and stand with us, or you stand against us. As for money, this would prevent many of us from ever upgrading, costing us hundreds of thouands of dollars. You can do what is right for the profession or do what is right for Jsled. Keep in mind that the time will come when you will expect one of us to have your back, that is unless you are the perfect pilot.
I agree...it's all BS. I wish your career didn't get wrecked by Tilton and the boys, and I wish Pierce wasn't such an ass. But here we are and this is a pretty good piece of pie here on the table.
Sled
11-14-2012 | 07:07 AM
#126
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
No offense taken. You think that full longevity credit will help your standing in the SLI and thus allow you to upgrade sooner? I don't think so. The merger announcement was 2.5 years ago. Reading the DAL/NWA and USAIr/AMwest SLI decisions, one can reasonably conclude that the so called "snapshot" or Constructive Notice Date will be on or about the same as the MAD. As for doing what is right for Jsled, I will be getting less of a percentage raise than Learjet Driver.
I agree...it's all BS. I wish your career didn't get wrecked by Tilton and the boys, and I wish Pierce wasn't such an ass. But here we are and this is a pretty good piece of pie here on the table.
Sled
I agree...it's all BS. I wish your career didn't get wrecked by Tilton and the boys, and I wish Pierce wasn't such an ass. But here we are and this is a pretty good piece of pie here on the table.
Sled
Let me make this clear: My fellow furloughees and I are NOT trying to make ANY seniority grab. WE JUST WANT TO GET CREDIT FOR PAY PURPOSES FROM WHEN WE WERE HIRED. And from the way the furloughee section is written (para. 4), we stand to LOSE our seniority to not eclipse any pilot hired at CAL from 5/6/2008.
Oh that's a good definition of steaming pile of excrement. Is that a good way to treat your "brothers"?
That's it. Clear? Yes or no?
Enjoy your pie.
SCR
11-14-2012 | 07:08 AM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,750
Likes: 0
From: 737 CA
Oh hell yeah, I stand on principle. Because work rules and the rights of furloughees who have been give. 100% pay cuts (two of them for me) don't come back.
You, sir, have been bitten by greed. And with your "yes" vote, you are culpable in the continual slide of this profession down a deep, dark abyss.
From my family to yours, thank you for nothing.
SCR
You, sir, have been bitten by greed. And with your "yes" vote, you are culpable in the continual slide of this profession down a deep, dark abyss.
From my family to yours, thank you for nothing.
SCR
Sled
11-14-2012 | 07:15 AM
#128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,750
Likes: 0
From: 737 CA
Sled
11-14-2012 | 07:16 AM
#129
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
SCR
11-14-2012 | 07:18 AM
#130
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 0
From: 756 Left Side
I'm done with you as you're the type that can't see the pile of **** that the few golden nuggets are lying in~
As a CAL FO, I am willing to work under the "MESA like abyss" for a while longer (LOL... not even close to MESA> Bad, yes. But still not MESA).
The fact that anyone would say "Industry Leading at Contract End" show's how delusional you are.
Kinda like saying that our scales match Delta's (What our Union is putting out).. at Date of Signing! For One whole month!
Then it's behind Delta.. for.. years!?
So, in closing.. we have one YES, a handful of maybe's, and hundreds of NO.
Motch
Proud NO Voter~
PS> Just wondering if you'd be willing to Identify yourself? So I know who I'm writing to~ I've done it, but whenever I ask someone to identify themselves, they usually don't..
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