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Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 1295806)
I make more than the median household income in the US and have a job in a time when many are unemployed and desperate for a job as a Walmart cashier. Don't worry about me, I'm doing just fine.
Anyways, looks like xjtguy and oldmako have the airline industry all figured out. Why don't you two start an airline together and use your vast knowledge of airline economics to run a profitable upstart carrier because clearly you know exactly what the majors are doing wrong. |
Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 1295806)
I make more than the median household income in the US and have a job in a time when many are unemployed and desperate for a job as a Walmart cashier. Don't worry about me, I'm doing just fine.
Anyways, looks like xjtguy and oldmako have the airline industry all figured out. Why don't you two start an airline together and use your vast knowledge of airline economics to run a profitable upstart carrier because clearly you know exactly what the majors are doing wrong. Yup, VATSIMer. Go ahead, ask it any question about the CR7, just give it a minute to look it up on the internet or in FSX. Might even be a non-flying Riddle student VATSIMmer. Either way, if it doesn't work for LCAL/UAL it shouldn't be commenting here on our TA, and should go troll somewhere else. |
I am a LUAL pilot. I am leaning toward voting YES.
I hate this contract, pay, retro, everything about it for the LUAL pilots. However, I think that any delay in passing will not get us any better deal, and may be an extended delay. UAL will shrink as CO grows. Where have we seen that before? The money we lose in the mean time we will never get back. We need to get on with the SLI and finish it so we can fix this turd. |
Originally Posted by Dave Fitzgerald
(Post 1295900)
I am a LUAL pilot. I am leaning toward voting YES.
I hate this contract, pay, retro, everything about it for the LUAL pilots. However, I think that any delay in passing will not get us any better deal, and may be an extended delay. UAL will shrink as CO grows. Where have we seen that before? The money we lose in the mean time we will never get back. We need to get on with the SLI and finish it so we can fix this turd. How about we grow a pair and FIX IT NOW (wait wasn't that a campaign about 6 years ago??? FIN???) SEND IT BACK----UNSAT and it is an EPIC FAILURE. |
Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 1295806)
....I make more than the median household income in the US and have a job in a time when many are unemployed and desperate for a job as a Walmart cashier. Don't worry about me, I'm doing just fine.
.... If you went to EmbyDoodle or some other fine aviatory institution for your degree and tickets, then you've probably spent almost twice that. How many people in the US have both a four year degree and an ATP (or COMM/INST/ME)? I'll give you a hint, according to the FAA there are 125,738 commercial pilots and 144,600 ATP's in the US. So, just over 270,000 of us, give or take a peck. Pilot certification in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia For comparison, there were over 661,400 licensed MDs in the US in 2008. Now, I don't don't claim to have near the education or skills as an MD. But aside from the guys who rip tails off Bonanza's, how many doctors could fire up your RJ and successfully go somewhere in really crappy weather? Sure its a silly comparison, but apt. We've got a pricey skill set and deserve to be well compensated for it. So right off the bat, you've got edjumacation that most can only dream about. In that regard, it seems silly to compare your financial position with Joe Six-Pack who doesn't have your flight training or education. I'm not a snob, but I'm not going to compare my skill set with the dude behind the counter at Advance Auto or a cashier at WalMart. I don't care what the median income is, I only care what mine is. I won't sell myself short just because the HS grad digging a ditch is poorly compensated or because of high unemployment. I bet your lawyer and doctor don't compare their compensation to the median US household. That would be stupid and shortsighted. Certainly you're neither. Right? According to the US census, the median household income was $51,914 between 2006 and 2010. USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau Please forgive my ignorance about the rest of the industry, but exactly where can an RJ F/O make more than that...without working overtime? You're a lucky dude! Congrats! Most commuter F/O's don't come close to that. Some might even wonder if you really are an RJ F/O with a salary like that. But I doubt that any of us will worry about you. So, don't worry about us. This thing will pass, or it won't and we'll just have to deal with the outcome. If you're lucky, we'll make some inroads into the abysmal scope situation and in doing so improve your chances of flying a Boeing or Airbus one day. Along the way, we'll try and shove the pendulum in the other direction and put some pay, dignity and benefits back into this woefully underpaid job. |
Excellent!
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Originally Posted by oldmako
(Post 1295951)
Here's the problem with that sport. If you really are an RJ F/O, then you've probably invested north of $50,000 USD to obtain at least a Commercial / Inst / ME ticket and a four year degree. And that would be doing it about as cheaply as possible. Of course, college isn't essential but you seem fairly confident in your airline acumen so I'm going to guess that you matriculated and got your college on. That places you in a group who enjoys a rate of unemployment at just over 4 percent. Not too bad when compared to the rest of the US. Therefore, you ought to have a job.
If you went to EmbyDoodle or some other fine aviatory institution for your degree and tickets, then you've probably spent almost twice that. How many people in the US have both a four year degree and an ATP (or COMM/INST/ME)? I'll give you a hint, according to the FAA there are 125,738 commercial pilots and 144,600 ATP's in the US. So, just over 270,000 of us, give or take a peck. Pilot certification in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia For comparison, there were over 661,400 licensed MDs in the US in 2008. Now, I don't don't claim to have near the education or skills as an MD. But aside from the guys who rip tails off Bonanza's, how many doctors could fire up your RJ and successfully go somewhere in really crappy weather? Sure its a silly comparison, but apt. We've got a pricey skill set and deserve to be well compensated for it. So right off the bat, you've got edjumacation that most can only dream about. In that regard, it seems silly to compare your financial position with Joe Six-Pack who doesn't have your flight training or education. I'm not a snob, but I'm not going to compare my skill set with the dude behind the counter at Advance Auto or a cashier at WalMart. I don't care what the median income is, I only care what mine is. I won't sell myself short just because the HS grad digging a ditch is poorly compensated or because of high unemployment. I bet your lawyer and doctor don't compare their compensation to the median US household. That would be stupid and shortsighted. Certainly you're neither. Right? According to the US census, the median household income was $51,914 between 2006 and 2010. USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau Please forgive my ignorance about the rest of the industry, but exactly where can an RJ F/O make more than that...without working overtime? You're a lucky dude! Congrats! Most commuter F/O's don't come close to that. Some might even wonder if you really are an RJ F/O with a salary like that. But I doubt that any of us will worry about you. So, don't worry about us. This thing will pass, or it won't and we'll just have to deal with the outcome. If you're lucky, we'll make some inroads into the abysmal scope situation and in doing so improve your chances of flying a Boeing or Airbus one day. Along the way, we'll try and shove the pendulum in the other direction and put some pay, dignity and benefits back into this woefully underpaid job. Mako, Good post. I agree with just about everything you say about the economics of the industry...... but there are a few other factors that are in play against legacy Pilots: 911: Management certainly did not "waste this crisis" to steal a line from Rahm. They used the post 911 environment to set labor back decades. Now, supply and demand should eventually help to correct compensation from its artificially low post 911/BK levels but it will take time. Time: Guys have been waiting a decade and some guys are getting close to retirement and are unwilling to delay now for a potential better payoff down the road which may not even come. RLA: Tthis serves as friction slowing down, if not stopping the laws of supply and demand from correcting artificially low compensation. On the bright side soon all the legacies will be out from under BK contracts thus hopefully enabling some big gains in the near future. I know this is probably not much consolation for you guys right now but it will certainly help us all in the long run. Good luck to all the UCAL guys! Scoop |
Originally Posted by oldmako
(Post 1295951)
Here's the problem with that sport. If you really are an RJ F/O, then you've probably invested north of $50,000 USD to obtain at least a Commercial / Inst / ME ticket and a four year degree. And that would be doing it about as cheaply as possible. Of course, college isn't essential but you seem fairly confident in your airline acumen so I'm going to guess that you matriculated and got your college on. That places you in a group who enjoys a rate of unemployment at just over 4 percent. Not too bad when compared to the rest of the US. Therefore, you ought to have a job.
If you went to EmbyDoodle or some other fine aviatory institution for your degree and tickets, then you've probably spent almost twice that. How many people in the US have both a four year degree and an ATP (or COMM/INST/ME)? I'll give you a hint, according to the FAA there are 125,738 commercial pilots and 144,600 ATP's in the US. So, just over 270,000 of us, give or take a peck. Pilot certification in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia For comparison, there were over 661,400 licensed MDs in the US in 2008. Now, I don't don't claim to have near the education or skills as an MD. But aside from the guys who rip tails off Bonanza's, how many doctors could fire up your RJ and successfully go somewhere in really crappy weather? Sure its a silly comparison, but apt. We've got a pricey skill set and deserve to be well compensated for it. So right off the bat, you've got edjumacation that most can only dream about. In that regard, it seems silly to compare your financial position with Joe Six-Pack who doesn't have your flight training or education. I'm not a snob, but I'm not going to compare my skill set with the dude behind the counter at Advance Auto or a cashier at WalMart. I don't care what the median income is, I only care what mine is. I won't sell myself short just because the HS grad digging a ditch is poorly compensated or because of high unemployment. I bet your lawyer and doctor don't compare their compensation to the median US household. That would be stupid and shortsighted. Certainly you're neither. Right? According to the US census, the median household income was $51,914 between 2006 and 2010. USA QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau Please forgive my ignorance about the rest of the industry, but exactly where can an RJ F/O make more than that...without working overtime? You're a lucky dude! Congrats! Most commuter F/O's don't come close to that. Some might even wonder if you really are an RJ F/O with a salary like that. But I doubt that any of us will worry about you. So, don't worry about us. This thing will pass, or it won't and we'll just have to deal with the outcome. If you're lucky, we'll make some inroads into the abysmal scope situation and in doing so improve your chances of flying a Boeing or Airbus one day. Along the way, we'll try and shove the pendulum in the other direction and put some pay, dignity and benefits back into this woefully underpaid job. Excellent post brother James. |
Originally Posted by Airhoss
(Post 1295610)
LOA 25 kills it for me. There is no way I can vote yes on an agreement that thumps our furloughees and in turn heavily and unfairly tilts the ISL in CAL's favor.
Thank you for the support, AirHoss and all APC members who see the LOA25 as the abomination of calculating wordsmithery it is. Elsewhere on this board we double furloughees have been characterized as 'an expendable 300'. Appreciate your fraternity. Need some solace as I'm feeling triple bent over, gut shot, shocked, and dismayed. How can some furlough time count but other furlough time not count? :confused: I'd have been willing to accept cutting the baby in half and get the high hard staple job but live on the edge of furlough on 12th year pay my Aug 2000 DOH would garner. Instead, "Spalding!! You will get nothing and like it!!" is a cold shot of p!ss to the heart. I'm starting to miss the line less and less....... |
Originally Posted by missintheline
(Post 1296110)
Thank you for the support, AirHoss and all APC members who see the LOA25 as the abomination of calculating wordsmithery it is. Elsewhere on this board we double furloughees have been characterized as 'an expendable 300'.
Appreciate your fraternity. Need some solace as I'm feeling triple bent over, gut shot, shocked, and dismayed. How can some furlough time count but other furlough time not count? :confused: I'd have been willing to accept cutting the baby in half and get the high hard staple job but live on the edge of furlough on 12th year pay my Aug 2000 DOH would garner. Instead, "Spalding!! You will get nothing and like it!!" is a cold shot of p!ss to the heart. I'm starting to miss the line less and less....... Great Post! |
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