CAL had no financing for a/c order past 2010
03-05-2013, 09:23 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: 737 CAPT
Posts: 1,882
Originally Posted by cadetdrivr
(In all seriousness I agree with you, it's only gonna matter to the arbitrator, but the claim has been made several times by several sCAL pilots on this forum that sCAL was somehow in better financial shape pre-merger with fully financed aircraft orders despite nearly every financial metric being similar between the two pre-merger companies.)
From UAL's Q1 2010 earnings release 4/27/2010:
"The company ended the quarter with a total cash balance of $3.8 billion, including an unrestricted cash balance of more than $3.5 billion and restricted cash of nearly $300 million." That equates to approximately 23% of the previous 12 months revenue (see below).
United Continental Holdings, Inc. - Investor Relations - News
By the time of the Q1 release in April, UAL added an additional $700 million in cash raised via a secured debt offering which closed on April 19, 2010. "As of April 26, 2010, including the proceeds received from the secured debt offering, the company held $4.5 billion in unrestricted cash, or about 27% of trailing twelve months revenue." (Approximately $16.67 billion by calculation using those numbers.)
From CAL's Q1 2010 earnings release 4/22/1010:
"Continental ended the first quarter with $3.15 billion in unrestricted cash and short-term investments." (Note: CAL only reported unrestricted cash balances
in their earnings release not total cash.)
United Continental Holdings, Inc. - Investor Relations - News
"As a percentage of our last 12 months revenue, cash was approximately 25%." -- CFO Zane Rowe during the investor conference call
Q1 2010 Earnings Call Transcript
Speaking of the twelve trailing months, unrestricted cash-on-hand by quarter for each airline leading up to the merger as reported in each carrier's earning releases:
2nd Quarter 2009: $2.6 billion UAL vs. $2.77 billion CAL
3rd Quarter 2009: $2.5 billion UAL vs. $2.54 billion CAL
4th Quarter 2009: $3.0 billion UAL vs. $2.86 billion CAL
1st Quarter 2010: $3.5 billion UAL vs. $3.15 billion CAL
Neither carrier was out in front of the other going into the merger. However, both carriers had a similar percentage of revenue available to them as cash on hand.
"The company ended the quarter with a total cash balance of $3.8 billion, including an unrestricted cash balance of more than $3.5 billion and restricted cash of nearly $300 million." That equates to approximately 23% of the previous 12 months revenue (see below).
United Continental Holdings, Inc. - Investor Relations - News
By the time of the Q1 release in April, UAL added an additional $700 million in cash raised via a secured debt offering which closed on April 19, 2010. "As of April 26, 2010, including the proceeds received from the secured debt offering, the company held $4.5 billion in unrestricted cash, or about 27% of trailing twelve months revenue." (Approximately $16.67 billion by calculation using those numbers.)
From CAL's Q1 2010 earnings release 4/22/1010:
"Continental ended the first quarter with $3.15 billion in unrestricted cash and short-term investments." (Note: CAL only reported unrestricted cash balances
in their earnings release not total cash.)United Continental Holdings, Inc. - Investor Relations - News
"As a percentage of our last 12 months revenue, cash was approximately 25%." -- CFO Zane Rowe during the investor conference call
Q1 2010 Earnings Call Transcript
Speaking of the twelve trailing months, unrestricted cash-on-hand by quarter for each airline leading up to the merger as reported in each carrier's earning releases:
2nd Quarter 2009: $2.6 billion UAL vs. $2.77 billion CAL
3rd Quarter 2009: $2.5 billion UAL vs. $2.54 billion CAL
4th Quarter 2009: $3.0 billion UAL vs. $2.86 billion CAL
1st Quarter 2010: $3.5 billion UAL vs. $3.15 billion CAL
Neither carrier was out in front of the other going into the merger. However, both carriers had a similar percentage of revenue available to them as cash on hand.
03-05-2013, 10:11 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 152
United Airlines will be part of industry consolidation one way or another
BUSINESS & FINANCEJULY 13, 2009BY: KENNETH ZENGERSubscribe
0 Email
Industry newsletter
United Airlines continues to be a troubled company. The Chicago-based airline stock is trading at levels indicating bankruptcy may once again be likely. With air travel down due to the economic recession United Airlines finds itself in danger of running out of cash. Cash is exactly what United needs right now with reports of more than $1.5 billion in debt due early next year. According to analyst Bill Warlick of Fitch Ratings Inc., "They could be in a position where they are in danger of running out of cash." Some experts are publicly stating that United Airlines can survive until the middle of next year unless the economy drastically improves.
So United Airlines is on a trek to failure unless dramatic changes are made. If the economy takes off and business travel rises to previous levels and fuel prices do not rise substantially United will be okay. If this does not happen as described they won’t be okay. So with the economic situation of today, United needs a strategy to solve their core issues assuming there will be no economic recovery. The drastic changes that are required for United Airlines to move beyond their current woes is to bring in new leadership that is capable of orchestrating a merger and relieving the company from its excessive debt burden.
United Airlines needs to face the reality that Tilton is not the right CEO for the company. In fact, he may have been the right leader to be at the helm during 2007 when oil prices surged and jet fuel reached historic levels, but when his level of expertise was most crucially needed he failed the company. Being a former oil man, Tilton should have better handled the commodity issues of 2007. He should have had a strategy to hedge oil futures to protect the company from the dynamic shifts in the market. This was Tilton’s initial strategic failure and it is still hindering the company today.
According to Mo Garfinkile, CEO of Virginia-based GCW Consulting LLC, who has advised Mr.Tilton and United "the game plan now is to survive." Now the company is possibly headed once again into bankruptcy and seems to be a prime candidate for being liquidated. With the drop in air traffic and strong competitors like Southwest Airlines expanding into the traditional business route and offering lower-priced options, the airline industry will squeeze the weaker players out. The industry is in need of consolidation and if business leaders don’t do it through mergers the market will do it through bankruptcy and liquidation. United Airlines will be part of the industry consolidation but they may not survive it.
BUSINESS & FINANCEJULY 13, 2009BY: KENNETH ZENGERSubscribe
0 Email
Industry newsletter
United Airlines continues to be a troubled company. The Chicago-based airline stock is trading at levels indicating bankruptcy may once again be likely. With air travel down due to the economic recession United Airlines finds itself in danger of running out of cash. Cash is exactly what United needs right now with reports of more than $1.5 billion in debt due early next year. According to analyst Bill Warlick of Fitch Ratings Inc., "They could be in a position where they are in danger of running out of cash." Some experts are publicly stating that United Airlines can survive until the middle of next year unless the economy drastically improves.
So United Airlines is on a trek to failure unless dramatic changes are made. If the economy takes off and business travel rises to previous levels and fuel prices do not rise substantially United will be okay. If this does not happen as described they won’t be okay. So with the economic situation of today, United needs a strategy to solve their core issues assuming there will be no economic recovery. The drastic changes that are required for United Airlines to move beyond their current woes is to bring in new leadership that is capable of orchestrating a merger and relieving the company from its excessive debt burden.
United Airlines needs to face the reality that Tilton is not the right CEO for the company. In fact, he may have been the right leader to be at the helm during 2007 when oil prices surged and jet fuel reached historic levels, but when his level of expertise was most crucially needed he failed the company. Being a former oil man, Tilton should have better handled the commodity issues of 2007. He should have had a strategy to hedge oil futures to protect the company from the dynamic shifts in the market. This was Tilton’s initial strategic failure and it is still hindering the company today.
According to Mo Garfinkile, CEO of Virginia-based GCW Consulting LLC, who has advised Mr.Tilton and United "the game plan now is to survive." Now the company is possibly headed once again into bankruptcy and seems to be a prime candidate for being liquidated. With the drop in air traffic and strong competitors like Southwest Airlines expanding into the traditional business route and offering lower-priced options, the airline industry will squeeze the weaker players out. The industry is in need of consolidation and if business leaders don’t do it through mergers the market will do it through bankruptcy and liquidation. United Airlines will be part of the industry consolidation but they may not survive it.
03-05-2013, 10:20 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 767 F/O
Posts: 303
Originally Posted by Olecal
OK, lemme be precise for you, 3 years 7 months as 73 CA and 6 years 5 months as 75/76 CA.
Are you really arguing that your career would have not been better (earnings, seat, and seniority QOL) as a 90's hire at cal? If that is what you are saying, then I want what your drinking. This is all mental stroking, but the facts remain 06 and 05 hires are 73 and 756 Ca's respectively at cal. That could change slightly in the SLI, but no windfalls dictate that you cannot punish a person for the company they chose, or where they are at that company. Your relative seniority will have the most effect on your position, along with small adjustments of seats, longevity, and career expectations... If you don't expect reality, you will be sadly disappointed when it is published...
Oh, and those CA's are 'hanging on' as in a previous post.
Are you really arguing that your career would have not been better (earnings, seat, and seniority QOL) as a 90's hire at cal? If that is what you are saying, then I want what your drinking. This is all mental stroking, but the facts remain 06 and 05 hires are 73 and 756 Ca's respectively at cal. That could change slightly in the SLI, but no windfalls dictate that you cannot punish a person for the company they chose, or where they are at that company. Your relative seniority will have the most effect on your position, along with small adjustments of seats, longevity, and career expectations... If you don't expect reality, you will be sadly disappointed when it is published...
Oh, and those CA's are 'hanging on' as in a previous post.
03-05-2013, 10:35 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 621
Originally Posted by Pilotbiffster
You DO realize that the only people hired by Continental in the 80's and 90's were those with backgrounds that precluded working for a "real" airline? How many people left United to go get a job at Continental? Zero. Now, how many people left Continental to get a job at United ? Can't give you the exact number but I've flow with three in the last year. Too many speeding tickets, DUI's, domestic assault arrests, personality disorders, yeah, Continental was your ticket. None of this will impact SLI but, back in the 90's, CAL wasn't even on my "apply" list .. United, Delta, American, Fedex, UPS, then the regionals. I never entertained going to the Leper Colony called CAL.
By the way, I have flow with a CAL pilot who used to work at United in the 80's. As I recall, he left during the strike.
03-05-2013, 10:40 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 152
Originally Posted by Pilotbiffster
You DO realize that the only people hired by Continental in the 80's and 90's were those with backgrounds that precluded working for a "real" airline? How many people left United to go get a job at Continental? Zero. Now, how many people left Continental to get a job at United ? Can't give you the exact number but I've flow with three in the last year. Too many speeding tickets, DUI's, domestic assault arrests, personality disorders, yeah, Continental was your ticket. None of this will impact SLI but, back in the 90's, CAL wasn't even on my "apply" list .. United, Delta, American, Fedex, UPS, then the regionals. I never entertained going to the Leper Colony called CAL.
But I am sure you are correct! BTW, how many CAL guys have you flown with?
03-05-2013, 10:46 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 767 F/O
Posts: 303
Originally Posted by CALFO
Your statement above speaks more to your personal lack of class and character than to the hiring practices of Continental.
By the way, I have flow with a CAL pilot who used to work at United in the 80's. As I recall, he left during the strike.
By the way, I have flow with a CAL pilot who used to work at United in the 80's. As I recall, he left during the strike.
03-05-2013, 10:52 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 152
Originally Posted by Pilotbiffster
You DO realize that the only people hired by Continental in the 80's and 90's were those with backgrounds that precluded working for a "real" airline? How many people left United to go get a job at Continental? Zero. Now, how many people left Continental to get a job at United ? Can't give you the exact number but I've flow with three in the last year. Too many speeding tickets, DUI's, domestic assault arrests, personality disorders, yeah, Continental was your ticket. None of this will impact SLI but, back in the 90's, CAL wasn't even on my "apply" list .. United, Delta, American, Fedex, UPS, then the regionals. I never entertained going to the Leper Colony called CAL.
I know it's killing you guys! Continental pilots having a better career than United pilots. No way, nope that can't be possible after all we saved Continental! We saved them! We saved them!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
