APC225

In over a dozen years I've never met, been told to meet by a captain, or told to meet an FO in the planning room. On the 737. It isn't practical or doable. If they want to enforce this rule on the narrow body fleet with different pilot pairing on each of the four legs that day with 45 min between flights then they'll see their off the gate times plummet. Fine.

Have you notice the difference in FPAs? LUAL has tables, where pilots sit, go over the paperwork, establish a rapport (the start of CRM). LCAL removed tables a long time ago, drywalled that space off, and made it a break room for any non-pilot group.

Regularguy

"That was the norm for the larger planes to brief everything to death and disect every little notam. It was not the norm on the NB fleet. If the weather was bad...who cares...you were still going. Put on more gas."

BS!

I have been at UAL for 35 years and I have met my Captains and F/Os for the entire time. Rarely do we brief anything to death, it is a perfect time to meet and establish ourselves as a crew, not a one man show with a helper, not a JAFFO.

vspeed

True but the changing of crews from leg to leg does not allow for this type of grip and grin which can be done just as effectively on the A/C increasing time efficiency. This may work great on augmented crews but it is neither practical or efficient for a 2 pilot op except maybe IOE or training flight IMHO.

No one is saying the FO is not worthy or a helper, and a good Captain will talk about everything to the FO in the brief and make sure both are on board with the plan, fuel and weather, before hand. Where this takes place is irrelevant. Which is why the wording is 'should' and not 'must' in the FOM. They tried this a couple years ago and it failed miserably from day 1 with 73 crews..

pilotgolfer

Regularguy,

Which fleet are you on? I assume after 35 years, you are not on the Airbus. What I said was my observation of my short 14 months at UAL on the guppy. I can count on one hand the number of times I met the Captain in OPs. Flying out of BWI and DCA that never happened. It would sometimes happen in IAD just because you had to walk by the crew room on the way to most of the gates. And it was never more than, "Hi...I will see you at the gate. I looked at the paperwork and everything looked good. Would you like anything from Dunkin Donuts while I'm there. ".

But compare that to the WB fleet...passing through ORD, I would see the whole crew huddled around a map with paperwork all over the table, furiously highlighting and folding charts. Briefing things to death was meant to be funny. I know there is a lot more planning involved in different types of flying.

I'm not saying either is right or wrong...just my observation.

SoCalGuy

I guess the "skit" below is the "rarity" when you "brief it to death"???

Initial Briefing - FAA briefing example from "Was That For Us?" - YouTube

APC225

I'd be curious as to which of a dozen different FPAs you meet in, and do both of you know to meet in the same one as the other is in?

Regularguy

To those requesting more:

I am a whale Captain now but up till last year was a domestic pilot who flew all Boeings and the Airbus. In that time we always, and with rare exception, I mean always met the crew (Capt, F/O and S/O) at the beginning of the ID/Paring 1 hour before the first flight at our home domicile (pilot base with our CAL harmonization). When I was first hired we had to check in with the local crew desk (the domiciles each had their own crew desk in the day) and then would meet the rest of the crew.

As a whale captain we all meet and brief no different, except look over the weather a little bit closer because of the length and possibilities associated with international flights. More than likely we joke about bunk time or lack of landings.

Even when 8L5'd (covering flying at another domicile) including IAD, DCA and BWI I always met the crew in the station's designated flight planning office/room.

The not meeting the captain is an sCAL tradition, not sUAL.

Regularguy

APC

At UAL we had only one main FPA and only used the satellite ones (SEA, DEN, ORD, LAX, JFK) when we were passing through on an ID (not home domicile or originating flight).

APC225

Regularguy, I have been impressed with the LUAL facilities. Even in the all-too small space in SFO there is a place carved out for tables and chairs. Not only that, but I see LUAL crews actually using them to make initial acquaintance and brief. Additionally there are three employees (with very good attitudes I might add) at desks in the very same room assisting pilots with everything from flight plans to visas. ORD is similar. This disappeared from CAL years ago. What LCAL says they want in the FOM and what they really want is evidenced by the lack of all of the above in LCAL workspaces. EWR concourse 3 and C80 FPAs are physically set up simply to get in, print out paperwork, and get out. Even in the large IAH area, it seems mainly set up as a lounge, although the men's bathroom gives a whole new meaning to the word "lebensraum."

Freight Dawg

It sounds as if there is a lot of resistance to this change from CAL guys. Just for clarification, most CAL guys would prefer to have the "new" airline reflect this particular CAL way of doing things, as opposed to reinstalling your flight planning areas and move towards the UAL flight planning traditions. Is that correct? I really don't understand the resistance to this change.