Lerxst

So you deflect onto another tangent without acknowledging the current topic, gotcha. It's a good thing Katz got the 2 pages of forum postings excluded given your MC's propensity for trying to use that hearsay. Wouldnt want your posts here calling the UA witness testimony an "accounting joke" to influence anything.

Now, on to your further characterizations of the Zeus db. I'm sure the UA side would also have severe issues with anything presented that had a company managing director caveat on it stating:

"This data was taken from now a obsolete database that was maintained at Continental over many years and by many different individuals. By spot-checking certain individuals for whom we know the correct dates, we know that there are errors in the data represented in the attached spreadsheet.

"However, we have no way of knowing how prevalent those errors are or the extent to which the dates may be incorrect.
"As we have stated before, this information has no bearing on the operation of the airline or the employment entitlements of the pilots it represents, and as such has never had cause nor reason to be challenged or verified. These are merely data fields pulled from a long-forgotten database."

The arbitrators noted that they are mindful of this caveat when parsing the information:

ARBITRATOR EISCHEN: The Panel, as I have indicated to you last evening, gentlemen, took under careful consideration the objection -- the objection and the response, which were previously articulated and have just now been expanded.
And on careful reflection, we are going to deny the objection as to admissibility of the document without prejudice to and while continuing to consider in due course the standing objection to the weight to be accorded to the documents or any position concerning their probative value.

Seems fair.

Lerxst

You're not a Jedi, Joe. Although it will take some Jedi mind tricks to pull off your vision of the future.

LAX Pilot

Nice try.

Yes errors, but I wouldn't call omitting HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of furloughs over many years, as an "error". The database showed the truth. CAL intentionally lied and didn't report furloughs so that they could artificially "pump up" the longevity side of their argument.

Just like they've "pumped up" everything else with their arguments.

But the lies have been exposed, and the TRUTH is now out there for everyone to see.

Sunvox

More interesting observations. . .

CAL argues higher W2s = better career. I fly 70 hours a month as do many, many senior pilots both CAPs and FOs. We are voluntarily foregoing a 20% pay raise for quality of life. With that in mind, take a close look at the 3rd slide, and tell me again why W2s are the best indicator of a pilots "earnings" and career expectations. Looks to me like CAL pilots work WAY harder than I do for $3,000 more per year in total compensation.

LAX Pilot

When you are forced to fly 15% more than every other airline pilot because of no work rules, yes you are going to earn more money. This was all refuted Sunday in United's case and very to the point. On a stripped out "all other things being equal" base, UAL pilots makes more per actual flight hour flown in total wages and benefits than CAL pilots do.

Smart of them to try and point at total W-2 earnings though. Can't blame them.

Sunvox

And, then let's talk about contract "maturity".

Sunvox

And funny thing about those higher CAL pay rates. Doesn't look like they applied to the WB fleet, and darned if that isn't why I picked UAL.

routemap

Did I just see 1986

Eastern, Pan Am, TWA, Have not seen those names on a chart in some time.

Horhay

I assume you're not a tool...but what a tool-ish response.

The truth is that the United "of old" was a truly class act. I, for one, have had a "welcome aboard" from not 1, but 5 airlines...I can say, without exception; United's was far-and-away the best. So why does this bother you to such a degree? Are you feeling somehow insufficient or inferior? This is what I gathered from your smarmy/in-your-face retort. How many can you say you've participated in there EWR? Please, provide some clarification to illustrate the breadth and depth of your seemingly vast experience.

The poster was simply trying to raise the expectations of those willing to read his post regarding the classy accommodations United made for its pilots and perhaps roll this expectation forward to possibly resume such an indoctrination. All you intended to do is roll-in hot with asinine vitriolic commentary...was it worth it? Any other "nuggets of wisdom" from the cheap seats?

I, for one, am "one of those guys" who is choosing to not "go back" to the United side for the time being. Is this because the CAL side is "so superior" to the rank/file of the United guys? All I can do is laugh at such a supposition....

From what I've seen (witnessed more accurately) of 15 months of flying the GUPPY in Houston; I will WELCOME the opportunity to return to the L-United side of the house when it's advantageous to do so.

Cheers,
Horhay

horrido27

Funny that some guys are posting snippets of the Transcripts as if they are 100% pure fact and that is going to be what influences the Arbitrators.

Kinda like showing up at the 2nd inning of a Playoff game and after watching 5 mins of the game, declaring a winner and champion.
Funny.

After reading 8 days worth of Transcripts, and many of the exhibits, this thing still has a ways to go, I am comfortable with those representing my concerns and goals.

Motch