untied

When Express pilots came over to the mainline, they weren't given any credit for their longevity at Express for equipment bidding....right?

For example....a guy hired at Express in 1990 who came up to the mainline in 1999 wasn't senior to everyone hired in the previous 9 years at CAL, was he??

If I have this right, then mainline CAL didn't give them longevity credit for time at Express. How then can we be expected to give longevity credit for years spent at Express when CAL didn't even give it to the Express "flow through" guys??

Really

I'll try to keep this as simple as possible. It involves many different programs CAL had going! The way many UAL pilots are thinking the program worked is that there is only one. Which is not true, there were 3 to 4 of them. First, Longevity/Seniority are two different issues. 1 program late 80's pilots accrued both Long/Sen. Then in later yrs mid to late 90's guys just accrued Long for pass travel only. Then, finally the last batch was just give pref interview. The only group that was given Sen. on the CAL Sen. list was late 80's guys. Not sure why guys are so hung up on this since pilots at CAL are ordered in SEN order to when they came to CAL except for some 80's CALEX hires to the 90 CAL hires. So if you took time on CAL property and readjusted CAL list with 80's CALEX and 90 hire's it would change CAL list but would not have real effect on SLI list since your replacing one group with the other!! Also, if you want to take time on property and hire date, do we go back to MID-80's(both sides) and adjust all their seniority? Or look at the furloughed guys(both sides) and adjust their longevity to time on property? Lots of ?'s! CAL's list is ordered in time on CAL prop. with exception to the 2 examples I gave above!

untied

Thanks for the explanation.

It seems like the guys hired in the 1990's were definitely NOT building longevity credit at the mainline, but the 1980's guys might be a different story.

I read one opinion by our lead arbitrator that stated Express time does not count, but that was another merger.

August can't come soon enough. I'm sick of thinking about this!

mrmak2

I don't know if this is the case for CAL and express, but there is also a situation where longevity can be applied for sick and vacation accruals, but not bidding seniority or pay. You would start over at the bottom when coming to mainline, except that you'd be able to bring over your short and long term sick time.

Really

Yes and No. Did some pilots accrue Longevity credit for sick/vacation in 90's yes. However, I'm not sure what group and for what programs. (Longevity being KEY word i.e.- sick, vacation) But, NONE accrued Seniority past the late 80's group.(and even that was a relatively small group) I was part of this group and was placed behind some 90 hires. Thats why when you look at our list you see 89 and 90 hires mixed up! I hope this helps you understand the programs better! I couldn't agree with you more about getting it over with!! I truly believe it's going to be OK, the only people that are going to be really miserable are the people that are always miserable!!

intrepidcv11

Digging deep into the muck, I believe sick bank and vacation accrual were part of the Flow Through Agreement of Contract '97. Anybody that flowed to CAL prior to 9/11 took their sick bank, vacation, and current Express pay rate for compensation. The flow through formerly ended in '03 (?) when CAL spun off XJT. There was one final group hired in 2005 that came in under the FTA that were part of a negotiated ending of said FTA.

The convoluted history of the guys hired in the 80's that accrued seniority at CAL is beyond my time. I've heard both sides of the argument and it makes my head spin. Suffice to say that this small group's existence has somehow been blown up to the urban legend that every Express pilot expects his Express DOH for SLI purposes.

sleeves

My first Flight at Express was with a guy that was on his last flight. He was going from 1900 capt. To 8 year MD-80 F/O. He kept all of his longevity, vacation, etc... He had only flowed at Express

Eisbaer

AKA Schindler's List.

Staller

Untied - this is a mute issue as far as the negotiating committees for both sides are concerned. As it turns out the cal guys were trying to piggy-back the express guy to the cal guys senority just in front of him on the cal list. Giving the express guy super senority over the UAL guy that would follow the cal guy.

During the rebuttal phase, the cal side is set to lose big because of cal's overreach on stuff like this. Ultimately, hurting cal's overall position and causing them to appear even more greedy than was thought. The cal negotiating committee is ready to start shedding-off the groups they used as fodder in the posturing phase. You cal "special interest groups" should start calling your LEC rep's and let them how you feel about being used as fodder. It's time for pierce to sell you out! Are you surprised given pierce's history?

Jaded N Cynical

Like any of this pontification matters.