CleCapt

To say the Nic1 award is the driver is this SLI is incorrect when you firmly believe that the ALPA merger policy has changed.

You can't base your case on the fact that ALPA merger policy has changed and then try to apply a merged SLI that occurred prior to the change.

I agree it must comply with current ALPA merger policy. The items listed must only be considered, and the arbitrators are not limited to only those items listed.

That is where I was going.

untied

He just doesn't like to hear ALPA merger policy brought up.

The CAL leadership was hoping that nobody noticed that their list completely ignored it.

The arbitrators are all over it...

Scott Stoops

Nic1 caused ALPA merger policy to change. That is an absolute fact. That is what I meant by saying that Nic1 was the driver that materially affected how furloughed pilots will be treated in this award.

I think we're arguing the same point in a round-a-bout way.

This award will be different than Nic1 - yet the CAL side proposed an even more extreme solution than even Nic1.

Scott

CleCapt

We do agree that this will be different. Mainly because it affects both of US and not them. We ARE saying the same thing, but our viewpoints are from different sides of the proverbial fence. We all want what is best for us and "Our Side" and because of that we see the result with different outcomes.

I am not afraid of the new ALPA policy, I embrace it. I'm not worried about the outcome of the award. I will live with the result.

I merely wanted to point out that to comply with the NEW policy, all the arbitrators need to do is CONSIDER the items on the list and apply whatever weight they feel is equitable. That could be 1% or 90%. I'm just saying that 1% of any of the listed items complies with the new policy as much as 90%.

The arbitrators are also NOT limited to the listed items as defined by the new policy. Doesn't mean they HAVE to look elsewhere for the answer, it just means that they are not bound by ONLY the items listed in the new merger policy.

I think that by leaning on the NEW merger policy, some pilots think that they are the ONLY items to be considered. This affects both sides.

What I am worried about are the people, ON BOTH SIDES, that will have trouble digesting that result, to the point that it not only affects them but the poor sods that have to fly with them.

There are good points raised daily from both sides, mixed in with all the minutia. No matter how complicated the equation or mental math that decides this, I believe that I will fall within a few percent of where I am now. For those in the Furlough Zone, I really don't know how it's going to come down. The arbitrators have an almost impossible job sorting that slice of the list.

I hope that when this is all over, and the tempers have settled, that we can all enjoy what is left of our careers.

ChrisJT6

How bout a few points from your position on the snapshot, MCD? Great concept the after the fact sliding snapshot, It would be even better if you could have improved things for yourself by dragging this on another year and 600 more pilots delta.
Nice job sounding reasonable and thoughtful but I say, Save your crock!

CleCapt

Wow, since when are reasonable thoughts a crock.

You might just be one of the guys I am worried about when this list finally comes down.

My thoughts on both snapshots do not matter one bit. Both sides present their best cases and the three wise men will decipher it all.

While I have read some of the briefs, I have not read all of them, nor do I have the legal expertise to necessarily understand the intricate details of the points presented. That is why we have lawyers I guess.

My MC, MEC or retained lawyers did not call me for my opinion. What I think is fair has no weight at all as it is not one of the new merger policy items.

We all want this merger over with. I never indicated I want this thing to drag on. Not sure where you got all this first hand knowledge on what is going through my head.

In your eyes, there is the stuff that LCAL does/did that were wrong and the stuff we continue to do, that is not right.

Maybe a little deeper soul searching on your part and maybe you wouldn't see a crock every time someone posts something reasonable.

Staller

You sure are starting to grasp at straws - Sad when it starts to fall all around you - you didn't call pierce did you?

ChrisJT6

I didn't comment on your mental thoughts just your standard CAL moving snapshot posted comment. Don't worry about me, because I never sold my soul for a job or a seniority number and after the last 3 years, I damn sure won't be worrying about you.

Not knowing May 2010 when the 1436 UAL furloughees would return, CAL pilots were everywhere jumping up and down "the snapshot was taken, the snapshot was taken" and to deal with the staplejob. Now that 3 years has passed and UAL has retired pilots and CAL has hired pilots while successfully dragging this sham on (aka JP, EWR LEC...) I hear folks like you and your low down MEC want to use some new current snapshot...you call it best shot, I call it a crock. I am okay that we disagree on that and understand just fine who has the decision making power in this process. By the way, those three seem pretty interested this week in getting to the truth behind CAL's used car sales job of a proposal. Looks like Fred wasn't there to keep hiding those dirty little secrets. All most of us ever wanted was for the SLI chips to fall, CAL on the other hand has worked there ass off doing everything they can to manipulate the process. Time will tell if those efforts will prevail.

It's good that you can post your comments in a nice tone, it's real nice. It is also nice that I just smile when I fly a CAL pilot that can't stop telling me he's been a CAL pilot for 25 years despite me knowing he started with CAL in 1998.

CleCapt

I never mentioned the word snapshot, you did.

Now I see the problem. You are stuck flying right seat on LCAL planes. I know it is probably not the most comfortable seat in the house right now, but it is a window seat. Anyone who took a flying job on the LCAL side should have known that there was going to be good with the bad. We have our misfits, you guys do too. I'm pretty sure you would still be bit¢hing if you were wearing a blue uniform right now.

Quit lumping all LCAL pilots into the scab mentality, that is not the norm. My soul is intact as is the majority of the pilots on the CAL side.

As far as the furloughs go, my only gripe is that LUAL is asking credit for all the pilots when there are many that do not plan to return. I realize it is a difficult to get an exact number, but there in lies the problem.

Quit dreaming up conspiracy theories that will only drive you crazy. Go to work, collect your paycheck, and pray for the day that this is all over and you get to fly with your LUAL scabs again. That will make everything better.

Sunvox

Nevermind . . .