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Old 09-24-2013, 03:58 PM   #31  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvhighdrive88 View Post
Well something is holding it up. A day late now. If I was a betting type my money would be on a CAL vs UAL rift over the nature of the bid. Could it be the bid was a whopper one or both of the sides couldn't swallow?
I think the problem is that the CAL guys think they found a way around the SLI decision.

They claim that they lose their bid, but then they immediately bump right back in to it.

Clearly, that does not satisfy the SLI decision which stated that untrained pilots were not entitled to those seats.

If you lose your bid, just enter a new selection when the new bid comes out. You can fly anything that your NEW seniority can hold. If the company doesn't "get" that....there will be INSTANT lawsuits and grievances filed.
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Old 09-24-2013, 04:11 PM   #32  
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I think the problem is that the CAL guys think they found a way around the SLI decision.

They claim that they lose their bid, but then they immediately bump right back in to it.

Clearly, that does not satisfy the SLI decision which stated that untrained pilots were not entitled to those seats.

If you lose your bid, just enter a new selection when the new bid comes out. You can fly anything that your NEW seniority can hold. If the company doesn't "get" that....there will be INSTANT lawsuits and grievances filed.

They already did it......



Date: September 6, 2013 Expires: September 16, 2013 To: Pilots | From: Crew Resources/WHQCM

Displacement Awards Per 737 MOU

Eligible Pilots Only
The following only affects pilots who are entitled to a displacement pursuant to the 737 MOU dated July 10, 2013. This will only impact pilots who are not in training, have not received a training assignment bid (TAB) award, or have not been pay protected for an assignment.
If you have received a CCS message, you are eligible for displacement rights under the MOU above.
A pilot with displacement rights is permitted to remain in his/her staffed position, or select another category to which their seniority can hold, which may include your prior award. For this interim process, no pilot will be affected by another pilot exercising their displacement rights. However, if future analysis determines an excess of pilot staffing exists, there is the potential for category/BES displacements under section 8 of the contract.
Pilots who do not wish to change their staffed position do not need to respond to this bulletin.
To facilitate this decision, a Junior Pilot Table (sample below) will indicate the junior- most pilot assuming the future movements as of the most recent TAB. Pilots holding displacements will be counted in their present operating positions.

A pilot deciding to exercise displacement rights and select a new category must email that election to [email protected] by 0800 CDT September 16th. A printable form with required information for pilot election is provided on the following page. Should a pilot submit more than one form, only the last submission will be considered. An immediate return email response will be generated to confirm receipt of the request.

Upon Processing, participating pilots will receive CCS notice of the revised award. The revised award will be referenced as 14_02D for future reference.
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Old 09-24-2013, 04:29 PM   #33  
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Damn Jsled,

You're a resourceful little monkey. It didn't take you long to find that gem.

I know I tried to wind you up earlier, but they are trying this. The game isn't over---they haven't "done" it yet.

You said you can wait a year? That wait from A-320 FO to 737 CA is $60,000. Still don't mind waiting?
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Old 09-24-2013, 04:39 PM   #34  
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So obviously some communication from mgmt or the union is too much to ask for. What was I thinking.
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Old 09-24-2013, 04:46 PM   #35  
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So you guys are saying it is all going smoothly?

Doing vacancies before displacements makes no sense to me. I was surprised to not see a big displacement bid right after ISL. I can't see NOT bumping 757 l-UAL pilots. A bump is much better than a bid, I doubt most 757 pilots would bid off if they are getting paid to not fly.

To the CAL pilots who think they will bump right back to the same position, bumps are not single bids. There will be multiple displacement bids, until manpower gets the numbers they want. What this means is perhaps a pilot can bump to the same position, but the next week when the next bump comes out, he gets bumped again, this time somewhere downhill.

Let the bumps begin.
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Old 09-24-2013, 04:57 PM   #36  
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I think this bears reading one more time. From the arbitrators...

"There simply is no fair and equitable basis for this Board to award what the CAL Committee proposes. Under the guise of protecting pilots from displacement from “then-current positions”, it would extend such protection to pilots who don’t actually have such positions at all. In short, if granted, it would interfere with the fair operation of the ISL forever by placing CAL pilots immovably in positions that their ISL seniority would not entitle them to hold."

...in other words, if you are not in training, you will not be afforded protections.
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:03 PM   #37  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Probe View Post
So you guys are saying it is all going smoothly?
acancies before displacements makes no sense to me. I was surprised to not see a big displacement bid right after ISL. I can't see NOT bumping 757 l-UAL pilots. A bump is much better than a bid, I doubt most 757 pilots would bid off if they are getting paid to not fly.

To the CAL pilots who think they will bump right back to the same position, bumps are not single bids. There will be multiple displacement bids, until manpower gets the numbers they want. What this means is perhaps a pilot can bump to the same position, but the next week when the next bump comes out, he gets bumped again, this time somewhere downhill.

Let the bumps begin.
Vacancies before displacement makes perfect sense in a healthy airline that is experiencing massive retirements. If 747 and 777 captains retire, it is logical that 76 capts will move up. Add to that the 76 cap's retiring (not to mention 747 and 767 fo's) and a great number of the reductions on the 756 fleet are satisfied prior to displacement bidding.

All the company has to do is to set the min low on the 756 and wait for the pilots to leave on their own. What displacements that do occur do not mean that pilots will be bumped out of their seat as another vacancy bid is almost guaranteed prior to 120 days after the displacement.

As for pilots not bidding out so they can get paid not to work, my guess is that extremely inefficient trips (14 days off for 80 hours) will probably solve that problem.
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:31 PM   #38  
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Originally Posted by SpecialTracking View Post
I think this bears reading one more time. From the arbitrators...

"There simply is no fair and equitable basis for this Board to award what the CAL Committee proposes. Under the guise of protecting pilots from displacement from “then-current positions”, it would extend such protection to pilots who don’t actually have such positions at all. In short, if granted, it would interfere with the fair operation of the ISL forever by placing CAL pilots immovably in positions that their ISL seniority would not entitle them to hold."

...in other words, if you are not in training, you will not be afforded protections.
You may like to repeat that ST, but what the CAL MC proposed was exactly what was awarded in the Delta/NWA merger and not very far from the UAL proposal (below).

The UAL Committee’s pilots in training proposed C&R (Number 1.3) is as
follows:
Pilots who, at the time of implementation of an integrated seniority list, are in the process of completing or who have completed qualification training for a new position
(e.g., B-777 Captain or A-319 First Officer) may be assigned to the position for which they are being or have been trained, regardless of their relative standing on the Integrated
Seniority List.

I was surprised that the arbs did not define what "in the process of training" meant, just for the reason that the two sides seem to be arguing now.

Besides, I wasn't talking about the 14-02 guys, but the guys that would be bumped that are already in the position.

Last edited by Skyflyin; 09-24-2013 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:31 PM   #39  
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CALFO;
They are already flying inefficient trips. There won't be enough 80 hour months to go around. There simply won't be enough block hours.

Yes, some of the Captains will retire straight out of the 75 fleet. But most of the pilots will not. Bumping gives you a paid move, free PS commuter passes, and no training freeze. Few will bid off until they gut bumped. I wouldn't.

400 retirements a year is only 3% of our pilot group. This is nowhere near "massive". Just "normal". 3% a year for 33 years equals? All of us. This is simply a normal rate of retirement.
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Old 09-24-2013, 05:41 PM   #40  
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Originally Posted by Skyflyin View Post
You may like to repeat that ST, but what the CAL MC proposed was exactly what was awarded in the Delta/NWA merger and not very far from the UAL proposal. I was surprised that the arbs did not define what "awarded training" meant, just for the reason that the two sides seem to be arguing now.

Besides, I wasn't talking about the 14-02 guys, but the guys that would be bumped that are already in the position.
What the arbitrators wrote was definitive. Who cares what was awarded at DAL/NWA? I guess if it has worked for LCAL in the past , they will continue to feed at the trough until it is empty.
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