Vacancy Bid
09-24-2013, 06:07 PM
#51
Don't say Guppy
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Guppy driver
Posts: 1,926
CALFO;
I have to disagree. You are looking at the UAL world through the rose-colored l-CAL glasses you have subsisted in the last 3 years. There is no system growth at UAL. There is shrinkage. Pilots don't all retire off the 777 and 400. Many retire off narrow bodies, and a not insignificant number will retire as wide body FO's.
I think the displacements will more than make up for the retirements for a while. 6 months to a year. The few vacancy bids will be on wide body captain, and 737 bases that the company plans on growing quickly. I do believe one or two 737 bases will end up with WAY too many Captains. DEN probably being the biggest as many UAL pilots will bump there.
400 retirements a year/12,000 pilots is only 3.3%. This year there are only about 300 planned retirements. 2.5% this year.
I have to disagree. You are looking at the UAL world through the rose-colored l-CAL glasses you have subsisted in the last 3 years. There is no system growth at UAL. There is shrinkage. Pilots don't all retire off the 777 and 400. Many retire off narrow bodies, and a not insignificant number will retire as wide body FO's.
I think the displacements will more than make up for the retirements for a while. 6 months to a year. The few vacancy bids will be on wide body captain, and 737 bases that the company plans on growing quickly. I do believe one or two 737 bases will end up with WAY too many Captains. DEN probably being the biggest as many UAL pilots will bump there.
400 retirements a year/12,000 pilots is only 3.3%. This year there are only about 300 planned retirements. 2.5% this year.
09-24-2013, 06:18 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 621
Originally Posted by Probe
CALFO;
I have to disagree. You are looking at the UAL world through the rose-colored l-CAL glasses you have subsisted in the last 3 years. There is no system growth at UAL. There is shrinkage. Pilots don't all retire off the 777 and 400. Many retire off narrow bodies, and a not insignificant number will retire as wide body FO's.
I think the displacements will more than make up for the retirements for a while. 6 months to a year. The few vacancy bids will be on wide body captain, and 737 bases that the company plans on growing quickly. I do believe one or two 737 bases will end up with WAY too many Captains. DEN probably being the biggest as many UAL pilots will bump there.
400 retirements a year/12,000 pilots is only 3.3%. This year there are only about 300 planned retirements. 2.5% this year.
I have to disagree. You are looking at the UAL world through the rose-colored l-CAL glasses you have subsisted in the last 3 years. There is no system growth at UAL. There is shrinkage. Pilots don't all retire off the 777 and 400. Many retire off narrow bodies, and a not insignificant number will retire as wide body FO's.
I think the displacements will more than make up for the retirements for a while. 6 months to a year. The few vacancy bids will be on wide body captain, and 737 bases that the company plans on growing quickly. I do believe one or two 737 bases will end up with WAY too many Captains. DEN probably being the biggest as many UAL pilots will bump there.
400 retirements a year/12,000 pilots is only 3.3%. This year there are only about 300 planned retirements. 2.5% this year.
09-24-2013, 06:40 PM
#53
Don't say Guppy
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Guppy driver
Posts: 1,926
CALFO;
I guess we will just have to disagree then.
As afar as the company attempting to give super-seniority to some CAL pilots, I wouldn't worry about it. The company cannot abrogate seniority because it suits a few people in Manpower. It is simply not done.
The untrained pilots from bid 14-02 are the most junior. So junior, that even most of the untrained captains could only displace to 320 FO on the former l-UAL fleets. All, or almost all, of the l-UAL 757 pilots that will be displaced can bump to ANY 737 Captain position, EWR 756 or IAH 756 Captain position. The displacements that will happen off the SFO 400 base will be able to hold these as well, with lots of seniority.
The company CANNOT abrogate seniority. It simply is not done.
I guess we will just have to disagree then.
As afar as the company attempting to give super-seniority to some CAL pilots, I wouldn't worry about it. The company cannot abrogate seniority because it suits a few people in Manpower. It is simply not done.
The untrained pilots from bid 14-02 are the most junior. So junior, that even most of the untrained captains could only displace to 320 FO on the former l-UAL fleets. All, or almost all, of the l-UAL 757 pilots that will be displaced can bump to ANY 737 Captain position, EWR 756 or IAH 756 Captain position. The displacements that will happen off the SFO 400 base will be able to hold these as well, with lots of seniority.
The company CANNOT abrogate seniority. It simply is not done.
09-24-2013, 07:12 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 178
Originally Posted by SpecialTracking
C'mon man. The TPA was definitive but that didn't stop JPOS from arguing that pilots with future training dates could keep their bids when it clearly stated in training or has completed training.
Edit: No it doesn't define it either.
Last edited by Skyflyin; 09-24-2013 at 07:25 PM.
09-24-2013, 07:24 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 178
Originally Posted by Birddog
Come on Skyflyin. The S-CAL guys are going to argue the meaning of "in the process of training". Who is your legal counsel now Bill Clinton?
09-25-2013, 04:34 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 521
Originally Posted by Skyflyin
Oh, you're going to switch now to the TPA was definitive. Does the TPA define what "in training" means? I'm not sure, let me look it up.
Edit: No it doesn't define it either.
Edit: No it doesn't define it either.
Let me help you out.....
If you show up to work and fly an actual airplane, you're NOT in training.
If you show up to work and fly a simulator, you ARE in training.
The company may try to violate the SLI, but it will cost them dearly. They may end up pay protecting every LUAL pilot senior to the 14-02 junior captains who were supposed to lose their bid.
09-25-2013, 04:45 AM
#57
Don't say Guppy
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Guppy driver
Posts: 1,926
Untied;
Agreed. It may not be as severe as you implied, but it is a slam dunk. The company cannot screw with seniority any more than the union can. The CAL "friends of Fred" program probably pulled lots of BS but it will not fly with a real union on the property.
Agreed. It may not be as severe as you implied, but it is a slam dunk. The company cannot screw with seniority any more than the union can. The CAL "friends of Fred" program probably pulled lots of BS but it will not fly with a real union on the property.
09-25-2013, 05:57 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: EWR B737FO
Posts: 225
Originally Posted by Probe
Untied;
Agreed. It may not be as severe as you implied, but it is a slam dunk. The company cannot screw with seniority any more than the union can. The CAL "friends of Fred" program probably pulled lots of BS but it will not fly with a real union on the property.
Agreed. It may not be as severe as you implied, but it is a slam dunk. The company cannot screw with seniority any more than the union can. The CAL "friends of Fred" program probably pulled lots of BS but it will not fly with a real union on the property.
09-25-2013, 06:01 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
Originally Posted by Slammer
I would have thought that for 6K per day, these ALPA bought Independent arbitrators, would have scratched " in the process", if they didn't want to give flexibility to the company...
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
