Vacancy Bid 1404V
12-03-2013 | 05:58 PM
#261
Line Holder
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
From: 737 FO
Ben
I'm going to start out by telling you that I am a new hire and had no vote on the contract or the SLI.
I worked my ass off to get into this industry. I looked up to mainline pilots as heroes. I looked up every time an aircraft flew over. The glory of flying around the world is strong with me and that passion will never die. Do I get upset sometimes? yes. do I follow my contract to the letter? yes. Do I get things fixed that the MEL says are ok to fly with? yes if I feel I need it to do my job safely.
We are all elite we all should be proud of what we have accomplished. The general public gives us no respect anymore and we are the first ones to be thrown under the bus when anything happens. So let us respect each other. How about we take one night out of our long careers and pat ourselves on the back for our accomplishments. I would love to bring my wife (kids if I had them) to the training center and show them where I work. I know my wife is proud of me but how awesome would it be to have a nice dinner and a little ceremony to show that you are part of something bigger than just flying airplanes.....you are part of a family. The first day of class at "Continental" my brass was slid down the table to me in a plastic bag, at least the wings were on paper with my name on it. Just because we are already here and we didn't get the ceremony doesn't mean we have pee in everyones cheerios.
The only way to fix this culture is to create a new culture with the best from both worlds and something new. As a new hire and a long career ahead of me I have taken this mission upon myself. I am helping to create a great environment that I am proud to work in and others will want to join, with you (ben) being 35 years old I promise you you will see it and I hope you become a part of it. The new hires are a good group and are excited the CO guys have seen this and the UA guys will see it soon with 320 and 76T new hires. A culture change is coming to both sides of the fence and you can either embrace it or be an outcast.
I proudly walk through the airport as a professional and I smile at my family as they walk bye ( FAs, Agents, Rampers, Mechanics). I fly the plane as smoothly as I can and look for the good ride even if that means flying at 29,000 FT. I use DES NOW to start a more gradual descent instead of hitting the TOD and pitching over to 2500 FT/min. I have flown with your types Ben, the I just do my job and go home. Most of them think they are saving the company money by not caring about the passengers comfort. But Ill tell you what, making people have to clear their ears every 30 secs by falling out of the sky is not helping the company. People only remember the bad they never remember the good so don't give them anything to remember.
I hope for your sake Ben that you calm down and take a break and reflect on what a great world we live in and what a great life we truly have, you live in GUM for christ sake! next time your at cruise making $120 an hour on you're way to NRT remember your reading a news paper not stuck at a computer.
Good luck Ben your going to need it
I'm going to start out by telling you that I am a new hire and had no vote on the contract or the SLI.
I worked my ass off to get into this industry. I looked up to mainline pilots as heroes. I looked up every time an aircraft flew over. The glory of flying around the world is strong with me and that passion will never die. Do I get upset sometimes? yes. do I follow my contract to the letter? yes. Do I get things fixed that the MEL says are ok to fly with? yes if I feel I need it to do my job safely.
We are all elite we all should be proud of what we have accomplished. The general public gives us no respect anymore and we are the first ones to be thrown under the bus when anything happens. So let us respect each other. How about we take one night out of our long careers and pat ourselves on the back for our accomplishments. I would love to bring my wife (kids if I had them) to the training center and show them where I work. I know my wife is proud of me but how awesome would it be to have a nice dinner and a little ceremony to show that you are part of something bigger than just flying airplanes.....you are part of a family. The first day of class at "Continental" my brass was slid down the table to me in a plastic bag, at least the wings were on paper with my name on it. Just because we are already here and we didn't get the ceremony doesn't mean we have pee in everyones cheerios.
The only way to fix this culture is to create a new culture with the best from both worlds and something new. As a new hire and a long career ahead of me I have taken this mission upon myself. I am helping to create a great environment that I am proud to work in and others will want to join, with you (ben) being 35 years old I promise you you will see it and I hope you become a part of it. The new hires are a good group and are excited the CO guys have seen this and the UA guys will see it soon with 320 and 76T new hires. A culture change is coming to both sides of the fence and you can either embrace it or be an outcast.
I proudly walk through the airport as a professional and I smile at my family as they walk bye ( FAs, Agents, Rampers, Mechanics). I fly the plane as smoothly as I can and look for the good ride even if that means flying at 29,000 FT. I use DES NOW to start a more gradual descent instead of hitting the TOD and pitching over to 2500 FT/min. I have flown with your types Ben, the I just do my job and go home. Most of them think they are saving the company money by not caring about the passengers comfort. But Ill tell you what, making people have to clear their ears every 30 secs by falling out of the sky is not helping the company. People only remember the bad they never remember the good so don't give them anything to remember.
I hope for your sake Ben that you calm down and take a break and reflect on what a great world we live in and what a great life we truly have, you live in GUM for christ sake! next time your at cruise making $120 an hour on you're way to NRT remember your reading a news paper not stuck at a computer.
Good luck Ben your going to need it
12-03-2013 | 05:59 PM
#262
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
From: Cal reserve..the gift that keeps on giving
Yes, but not to all 4 islands multiple flights daily from LAX and SFO. And LAX-PVG CAL didn't have route authority to do that flying. Nor did it have a base in LAX or SFO for the last 20 years.
Doesn't matter now because the SLI is done I can bid that flying if I want so its all UAL flying again!!!!!
Doesn't matter now because the SLI is done I can bid that flying if I want so its all UAL flying again!!!!!
12-03-2013 | 06:10 PM
#263
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,091
Likes: 1
You are wrong. Longevity was added to ALPA merger policy. It does matter and was used in the arbitration ruling which was done with neutral arbitrators and was totally fair.
You were at 86.5% on October 1st 2010 on the CAL list. That was the list that included ALL CAL pilots even on furlough.
After the arbitration you ROSE up to 83.4% on the overall list.
So your relative seniority IMPROVED with the SLI.
You were placed with pilots hired in 1999 which was 7 years before you were hired.
Currently you are at 76% of the seniority list. Also, since you are only 35 years old, every single United Pilot who was actively flying will retire prior to you. You will retire at the same number as before except out of 12,500 pilots not 4,700 pilots.
You also merged with a airline that doesn't just fly a bunch of guppies. We actually have a lot of large jets. More than anyone in the industry, including the merged DAL/NWA.
So you went from 86% to 83% in a snap with the SLI and since 2010 you've jumped to 76%
Dude you have NOTHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT.
You were at 86.5% on October 1st 2010 on the CAL list. That was the list that included ALL CAL pilots even on furlough.
After the arbitration you ROSE up to 83.4% on the overall list.
So your relative seniority IMPROVED with the SLI.
You were placed with pilots hired in 1999 which was 7 years before you were hired.
Currently you are at 76% of the seniority list. Also, since you are only 35 years old, every single United Pilot who was actively flying will retire prior to you. You will retire at the same number as before except out of 12,500 pilots not 4,700 pilots.
You also merged with a airline that doesn't just fly a bunch of guppies. We actually have a lot of large jets. More than anyone in the industry, including the merged DAL/NWA.
So you went from 86% to 83% in a snap with the SLI and since 2010 you've jumped to 76%
Dude you have NOTHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT.
My dad, also an airline pilot, made it clear to me long ago that if a Lorenzo type gets his fangs in the operation, your final choice is to always pack your bags and leave with your dignity intact. Obviously dignity is something you know nothing about. No wonder why.
When the ISL came out, one of the first things I did is see where one of your L-CAL pilots ended up. He was hired at CAL after I was at UAL, but was as self-made of an airline pilot as you will ever find, and a mentor to me. I found that not only was he senior to me, but well senior to me. Quite frankly, I was happy for him and glad that it worked out that way. Besides, with him being a few years older than me, I can hang back wait for him to move on. I'm glad that he is in a position to have many good years to take care of his family and have the comfortable retirement someday that he deserves.
I know, I know. The above is a foreign concept to you and Generation Me. I hope you decide to spend your career in Guam. It is where you belong.
Last edited by CousinEddie; 12-03-2013 at 06:34 PM.
12-03-2013 | 06:25 PM
#264
Line Holder
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
From: 737 FO
Thanks to my fellow pilot for braking this down. There you have it. Ben, if you can't live in peace with the above facts -- along with how incredibly senior you will be when you reitre -- then I guess the apple really doesn't fall far from the tree. You can't remember when dad crossed? Yeah, right. And you can quit with the Texas two-step "y'all" talk.
My dad, also an airline pilot, made it clear to me long ago that if a Lorenzo type gets his fangs in the operation, your final choice is to always pack your bags and leave with your dignity intact. Obviously dignity is something you know nothing about. No wonder why.
When the ISL came out, one of the first things I did is see where one of your L-CAL pilots ended up. He was hired at CAL after I was at UAL, but was as self-made of an airline pilot as you will ever find, and a mentor to me. I found that not only was he senior to me, but well senior to me. Quite frankly, I was happy for him and glad that it worked out that way. Besides, with him being a few years older than me, I can hang back wait for him to move on. I'm glad that he is in a position to have many good years to take care of his family and have the comfortable retirement someday that he deserves.
I know, I know. The above is a foreign concept to you and Generation Me. I hope you decide to spend your career in Guam. It is where you belong.
My dad, also an airline pilot, made it clear to me long ago that if a Lorenzo type gets his fangs in the operation, your final choice is to always pack your bags and leave with your dignity intact. Obviously dignity is something you know nothing about. No wonder why.
When the ISL came out, one of the first things I did is see where one of your L-CAL pilots ended up. He was hired at CAL after I was at UAL, but was as self-made of an airline pilot as you will ever find, and a mentor to me. I found that not only was he senior to me, but well senior to me. Quite frankly, I was happy for him and glad that it worked out that way. Besides, with him being a few years older than me, I can hang back wait for him to move on. I'm glad that he is in a position to have many good years to take care of his family and have the comfortable retirement someday that he deserves.
I know, I know. The above is a foreign concept to you and Generation Me. I hope you decide to spend your career in Guam. It is where you belong.
All your percentage are based on furloughed pilots, when they don't come back that percent goes down. If you have 100 pilots and you are number 90 you are at 90 %. Take away the bottom five and you are still number 90 but you are not 90%. So when 600 of your furloughes don't come back, my so called percentage will not be what the arb showed. This has been the main reason through history that furloughed pilots are not included with active, they can not be accurately numbered. You seem to hang your hat on years of service and age. I guess we will just have to disagree on that. Don't think either should play a role in a merger. Back to my dad, why would I know the date he crossed, I was 5-7 yrs old. Not sure what you mean by saying I belong in Guam. But don't worry as long as my seniority lets me, I have no plans to leave.
12-03-2013 | 07:24 PM
#267
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,168
Likes: 0
From: Gets weekends off
Just to point out the misguided perception that some pilots have about SLI. The fact that a pilot was furloughed or active didn't matter and this is why.
The list was created from the top down. Slots were created and pilots were put in them. If a pilot from the other side was senior to you, it was because a slot for that airline existed. It didn't matter what pilot was there. Just a pilot from the other airline.
The large number of status and category of 777 and 747 Cap created a large number at the top for UAL pilots. The smallest categories were furloughed for both sides and narrowbody FO, which were mostly slots for LCAL pilots to fill since those were the jobs they brought to the merger.
If a pilot on furlough is placed ahead of active and they don't come back, then the active pilot moves up a position.
So overall it cancels out since they will not all come back.
It was a fair SLI and I am not happy being placed with pilots who were junior to me previously but I can live with it.
The list was created from the top down. Slots were created and pilots were put in them. If a pilot from the other side was senior to you, it was because a slot for that airline existed. It didn't matter what pilot was there. Just a pilot from the other airline.
The large number of status and category of 777 and 747 Cap created a large number at the top for UAL pilots. The smallest categories were furloughed for both sides and narrowbody FO, which were mostly slots for LCAL pilots to fill since those were the jobs they brought to the merger.
If a pilot on furlough is placed ahead of active and they don't come back, then the active pilot moves up a position.
So overall it cancels out since they will not all come back.
It was a fair SLI and I am not happy being placed with pilots who were junior to me previously but I can live with it.
12-03-2013 | 07:49 PM
#268
Don't say Guppy
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,926
Likes: 0
From: Guppy driver
I was hired late 95. I am slotted in next to CAL pilots slightly more than 2 years junior to me, and I was never furloughed (some of them were). UAL brought more jobs in higher categories. They should probably have been placed well below me, not next to me.
But I had no input to the SLI process, and there is nothing I can do about it. My opinion doesn't matter, only that of the arbitrator's.
It is now up to each of us to decide, for ourselves, if the job is worth keeping.
If it doesn't work for you, grow a pair, and leave for greener pastures. If you want to complain, please do it to your mom, and not your coworker.
FWIW, only a few lCAL pilots have ever brought it up around me, and I never have.
Whether you think it is fair or not, it is final, and over.
Time to move on.
But I had no input to the SLI process, and there is nothing I can do about it. My opinion doesn't matter, only that of the arbitrator's.
It is now up to each of us to decide, for ourselves, if the job is worth keeping.
If it doesn't work for you, grow a pair, and leave for greener pastures. If you want to complain, please do it to your mom, and not your coworker.
FWIW, only a few lCAL pilots have ever brought it up around me, and I never have.
Whether you think it is fair or not, it is final, and over.
Time to move on.
12-03-2013 | 08:12 PM
#270
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 908
Likes: 0
From: 737 fo
The insecurities and denial are astounding...
The CAL pilots bring so much pilot culture baggage to this merger: scabs, management friendly union and pilots, profit sharing, delayed JCBA, skewed negotiations like pay banding which are valueless in SLI but we have to live with, incompetent reps (Pierce, Baron, Cook, Sally), egregious SLI proposals, misleading communications to pilots.. the list goes on....
And guys come on here arguing BS, without having the courage to own their baggage. Thinking if they keep arguing it will change reality...
The CAL pilots bring so much pilot culture baggage to this merger: scabs, management friendly union and pilots, profit sharing, delayed JCBA, skewed negotiations like pay banding which are valueless in SLI but we have to live with, incompetent reps (Pierce, Baron, Cook, Sally), egregious SLI proposals, misleading communications to pilots.. the list goes on....
And guys come on here arguing BS, without having the courage to own their baggage. Thinking if they keep arguing it will change reality...
You keep asking what I like about the Cal culture? I gave you an answer that there are many things. Mostly the way we all got along and worked together as a pilot group for our common goals. (Minus the scabs). Over the last few years I believe I have learned the best part of it was that it was not UAL's culture and that YOU were not in it.
Our new culture will not be the same as either company had before, deal with it.
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