You know it is possible to disagree with the FO without disregarding him?? There were times I took input from my FO, disagreed with it and did something different. Doesn't mean I disregarded the FO, it means the captain makes the final decision.

So an FO can never be wrong or give bad input?

 

Some pilots simply find leaving a maintenance base with an APU inop (even with no other special circumstances) to be unacceptable: shut an engine down, they want the APU that could have been fixed back at the maintenance base to be available. Ask Sully (an extreme case, I know) if he was glad his APU wasn't MEL'd that day. My point in the previous post was that if a pilot looks at the issue this way, then they need to be consistent in the application of that point of view day in and day out.

You can disagree with this point of view. However, it is hard to deny that had the APU issue not been pushed at L-UAL over the years, we would be seeing far more than an average of 3 APU deferrals on a daily basis. The fact that maintenance makes it a priority is good for everybody.

 

I'm sorry, are you saying that lcal disregards CRM and is an accident waiting to happen? Couldn't be further from the truth.

 

Great point.

 

It looks like it falling along cultural lines. With the LUAL side saying, you have to show me that it's safe. While the LCAL side is saying you have to show me it's not safe. And that follows the philosophy of management over the years. On the LUAL side I don't think job fear was ever a factor but from many on the LCAL side, I have heard it wasn't uncommon to have this threat raised or implied.

 

I've been at CAL/UAL for over 15 years never ever been threatened or even questioned in any way. You are paid to manage an asset and act in a safe and reasonable manner to help the company make money. Any action you do, you should be able to justify to the CPO, refusing airplanes to teach MX or the company a lesson is a fail. We want to get paid big $$ we need to act like responsible managers. The difference is there are a FEW UAL guys who still have a chip on their shoulders and want to stick it to management, they are fortunately the minority, the vast majority of both sides of the house just want to run a safe professional airline.

 

Very well said, I think 90% of guys feel the same way! the other 10% spend a lot of time on the forums.

 

I can't speak for the l-ual operation, but I can tell you that l-cal ran an exceptional mx department and it was extremely rare to ever see an Mel on a plane. The pilots didn't need to teach mx a lesson, mx got the job done and took pride in their work.

 

[QUOTE=Airhoss;1675037]As has been pointed out just becuase it's MEL-able doesn't mean it's safe. That's why a Captain makes the big bucks for his decision making ability and system awareness and knowledge. A low rent company man who blindly follows management directive with no concerns other than getting a flight out on time is a captain in name only.



A captain who disregards his crew and takes an airplane with complete disregard for the concerns of his F/O is a complete CRM nightmare and an accident waiting to happen. Of course I've heard that the culture over there is pretty much stuck in the 1960's regarding crew resource management, captain is king and all that stuff... quote



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


That couldn't be farther then the truth, you need to knock the boulder size chip of your shoulder, we are all pilots, all working for the same company, the only difference is which place called us and put us in class first, I got news for you being hired at UAL didn't make you special or different, your just another airline pilot, drop the attitude and you'll be a much happier one.

 

[QUOTE=Moombabeach;1675118]You tell me in an earlier post that I need to "grow a pair" if I was to refuse a non APU airplane and that I don't belong in this industry for asking what a CAL guy will refuse a plane for, then come back with this? REALLY? Lets go back to your original reply. If I feel it is unsafe to take a no APU airplane you claim it's because I don't have the balls, how unbelievably adolescent and immature can you get? You then go on to brag about your big sweaty, hairy, low hanging pair because "I flew turbine airplanes with no APU" BS!

This isn't about who's got the biggest balls and who is willing to take the greatest risks QUITE the opposite. It's about making sensible safe decisions even when some management weenie is pressuring you to go.

Now as far as the juvenile response to my comments on CRM which are very clearly written and right there in black and white and were predictably taken out of context, disregarding your crew wholesale is a CRM nightmare waiting to happen. let me copy it and put it in bold for thereading comprehension challenged people who somehow misread it. Here it is one more time for the slow people. "A captain who disregards his crew and takes an airplane with complete disregard for the concerns of his F/O is a complete CRM nightmare and an accident waiting to happen."

Having a disagreement with a crew member then coming to a logical safe conclusion obviously is not a CRM issue that is what CRM is all about. Leaving that F/O on the dock means to me that the F/O had some serious concerns that we are not hearing about here and the captain completely disregarded them. Until we have the whole unaltered story we won't know.