I flew the 757/767 for 11 years and if there were no wx issues enroute or destination, I would take the airplane as long as it was MEL'd AND MY F/O AGREED. If my F/O expressed any concern, I would refuse the aircraft. It's import to understand that it takes TWO pilots to dispatch the aircraft and on my aircraft, the decision to take the aircraft must be unanimous.

 

I haven't flown on the lUAL side for 6 years. I can tell you a lot of MEL refusals just comes down to horrible employee relations. When you get stabbed in the back enough times by the company, you just look for ways to stab back. It sounds horrible, but unfortunately, welcome to UAL.

 

A "questionable MEL" wasn't my question. Also, I think union guidance on these and many other issues is one of many invaluable tools for a professional pilot to draw on. Their guidance in safety is invaluable. I appreciate the availability of many additional resources to draw on when I make decisions about safety. I've seen common sense fail too many times. I tend to look for SOP as my primary guide.

 

I think that what you say is part of it. The other part of it is just trying to hold the operation to a higher standard. That latest CCS bulletin said we were averaging 3 inop APUs per day over a fleet of more than 700. How much higher would that number be otherwise if management knew there was no risk of rejections?

Having said that, I think 757Driver asks a fair question here. All things considered, I don't have a problem with an APU inop on a typical domestic flight. I like it when Captains get TOMC on the phone and press for details about what the fix it plan will be. There is the risk of a hot cabin at the gate as Sled pointed out despite promises of air availability, etc. I think most passengers would choose temporary discomfort over going through the chaos that a flight cancellation unleashes these days though.

 

I mean take an a/c if its REALLY HOT outside without APU air. I had a discussion with the ramp, they just didn't follow my direction. What do you mean "let them pull the air"? Do you go down on the ramp under threat of violence (H&K out and ready) if they pull the air?? C'mon man. You don't know when they are gonna decide to pull the air. They are supposed to ask, but what if they don't? You have 150 peeps sweltering. There is a time when an inop APU (air) is downright dangerous on a hot, humid summer day. Ain't gonna do it. They can fix it.

 

Not the way to go about it if we want this company to succeed. All it does is punish the pax in the end which in turn depletes our revenue. This culture needs to change ASAP if we want to survive and have jobs in the long term. If it's unsafe I get it. If it's just to punish management...it's a poor tactic and hurts all of us in the end.

 

On a hot day, you'll know they are pulling the air as soon as they turn it off. Yes, if they pulled it that early I would go down there and tell them to turn it back on. If they refused, I'd deplane. That simple. I don't know what the old 757's are like running the pacs off the engines at idle but the NG's cool down nicely once an engine is started.

The cooling of the cabin is an issue, but if you take time to coordinate with the ground crew, it can be done with minimal inconvenience. As much as the passengers and commuting pilots it back dislike being without air for a couple of minutes, they would much prefer it to canceling a flight or delaying for an extended period.

 

As has been pointed out just becuase it's MEL-able doesn't mean it's safe. That's why a Captain makes the big bucks for his decision making ability and system awareness and knowledge. A low rent company man who blindly follows management directive with no concerns other than getting a flight out on time is a captain in name only.

Flew DC-8's all over the world including deepest darkest Africa in the middle of some very unpleasant little bush wars with no APU. Flew deep into the polar regions landing on sea ice hundreds of miles from land with no APU. Flew single pilot all over Mexico and Central America with no APU. All in turbine airplanes. Those were different circumstances and a different kind of operation. There are times that I'll take an airplane no APU but I won't take a 757 ETOPS or in low vis conditions without one and I might not take one depending on what else is wrong, it ain't about the size of your balls Skippy. It's about making the safest decision for the current circumstance. I guess you didn't know that?

A captain who disregards his crew and takes an airplane with complete disregard for the concerns of his F/O is a complete CRM nightmare and an accident waiting to happen. Of course I've heard that the culture over there is pretty much stuck in the 1960's regarding crew resource management, captain is king and all that stuff...

Of course we don't know the whole story on what the circumstances were. We are only getting the parts that make it juicy for retelling.

 

The real test of will for a pilot on this APU issue is the last leg of the trip home. Let's say it is from SFO to ORD, with no other special circumstances. If the pilot still refuses the airplane and is willing to accept the missed commute home and buying a commuter hotel room for another night --- then the pilot is at least sticking to his or her principles on the issue. If the pilot takes the airplane this time simply to make it home, then that its obviously complete BS. You can't have it both ways.

 

Why would you not take it if it meets the guidelines in the MEL? I'm confused sorry.

It's over land with lots of alternates if a bigger issue occurs. Why would said pilots not take the jet? I've flown an APU inop jet multiple times domestically (and within MEL guidelines of course) with no issues and on time arrivals.