JFK GONE... PS moves to EWR
06-16-2015 | 04:48 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 323
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Give me one good reason why they would need a SFO 756 or 76T base in SFO if CDG goes to the 787. They will be able to staff all the flying with EWR and LAX. Not saying its going to close but without JFK, SFO and/or LAX become redundant.
There is just not that much 757 flying going around to have EWR,DCA,ORD,IAH,LAX,SFO. Something is going to give.
There is just not that much 757 flying going around to have EWR,DCA,ORD,IAH,LAX,SFO. Something is going to give.
You can't be serious. The only base that has more daily 756/76T departures then SFO is EWR. Why would you not have a domicile there? Look at the LAX 756 bid pack, half the trips start with a DH to SFO.
06-16-2015 | 09:50 PM
#13
Line Holder
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 317
Likes: 1
From: CAP A320
Give me one good reason why they would need a SFO 756 or 76T base in SFO if CDG goes to the 787. They will be able to staff all the flying with EWR and LAX. Not saying its going to close but without JFK, SFO and/or LAX become redundant.
There is just not that much 757 flying going around to have EWR,DCA,ORD,IAH,LAX,SFO. Something is going to give.
There is just not that much 757 flying going around to have EWR,DCA,ORD,IAH,LAX,SFO. Something is going to give.
Any more hypothetical stuff you want to throw out there? Are you the same person that argued with me two months when i told everyone that i had heard the 756 base was opening up in SFO before the end of the year? There were about three guys slamming me on that one, then the news came out a week later, and i could have heard crickets. Now i'm hearing this hypothetical garbage! Let's move on please.
06-16-2015 | 10:19 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,599
Likes: 205
From: 787
You are a little out to lunch. They made the announcement of a new 756 SFO base less than two months ago. Are you saying management had no idea they were going to get rid of the PS flying to JFK at that time. What kind of hypothetical crap are you throwing out there. I don't need to answer that question "if the 787 takes CDG, will they need either a 76T or 756 base." The answer was given to you two months ago!!
Any more hypothetical stuff you want to throw out there? Are you the same person that argued with me two months when i told everyone that i had heard the 756 base was opening up in SFO before the end of the year? There were about three guys slamming me on that one, then the news came out a week later, and i could have heard crickets. Now i'm hearing this hypothetical garbage! Let's move on please.
Any more hypothetical stuff you want to throw out there? Are you the same person that argued with me two months when i told everyone that i had heard the 756 base was opening up in SFO before the end of the year? There were about three guys slamming me on that one, then the news came out a week later, and i could have heard crickets. Now i'm hearing this hypothetical garbage! Let's move on please.
06-16-2015 | 11:03 PM
#15
Stuck Mic
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,059
Likes: 0
I don't see a reason why they wouldn't add a 756 SFO. Deadhead in and out of there, either through lax or IAH, more than half the LAX trips that are 4 days end up through SFO. I'm guessing it would save hotels, save deadhead costs among other things.
06-17-2015 | 01:17 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,209
Likes: 6
From: 777
The day the merger happened, any and all service at JFK days were numbered and pre-ordained. Any accountant can make the numbers say anything you want.
If you include the costs of 757 upgrades, or not, maybe it's profitable, maybe it's not. Moving the PS to EWR will be a disaster. It would be better to discontinue all together, which I think, this is the first move to do so. Can you say, saving face?
I said it before, and I'll say it again, almost none of the current PS customers will fly out of EWR. They will go to American and Delta to fly out of JFK. That is the whole point. Unless you have flown it, or ridden on a PS plane you have no idea what the level of service is. It is vastly different from anything out of EWR or any other place in the system. More what UAL first class used to be, and should be if we are to compete. What we currently have is not first class service, not even close. This seems to be the same old run and hide tactic, along with the current go cheap philosophy, and hope no one notices.
If we are to compete, this is not how to do it. Delta will continue to dominate and we will continue to not be competitive.
If you include the costs of 757 upgrades, or not, maybe it's profitable, maybe it's not. Moving the PS to EWR will be a disaster. It would be better to discontinue all together, which I think, this is the first move to do so. Can you say, saving face?
I said it before, and I'll say it again, almost none of the current PS customers will fly out of EWR. They will go to American and Delta to fly out of JFK. That is the whole point. Unless you have flown it, or ridden on a PS plane you have no idea what the level of service is. It is vastly different from anything out of EWR or any other place in the system. More what UAL first class used to be, and should be if we are to compete. What we currently have is not first class service, not even close. This seems to be the same old run and hide tactic, along with the current go cheap philosophy, and hope no one notices.
If we are to compete, this is not how to do it. Delta will continue to dominate and we will continue to not be competitive.
06-17-2015 | 03:16 AM
#17
Don't say Guppy
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,926
Likes: 0
From: Guppy driver
The day the merger happened, any and all service at JFK days were numbered and pre-ordained. Any accountant can make the numbers say anything you want.
If you include the costs of 757 upgrades, or not, maybe it's profitable, maybe it's not. Moving the PS to EWR will be a disaster. It would be better to discontinue all together, which I think, this is the first move to do so. Can you say, saving face?
I said it before, and I'll say it again, almost none of the current PS customers will fly out of EWR. They will go to American and Delta to fly out of JFK. That is the whole point. Unless you have flown it, or ridden on a PS plane you have no idea what the level of service is. It is vastly different from anything out of EWR or any other place in the system. More what UAL first class used to be, and should be if we are to compete. What we currently have is not first class service, not even close. This seems to be the same old run and hide tactic, along with the current go cheap philosophy, and hope no one notices.
If we are to compete, this is not how to do it. Delta will continue to dominate and we will continue to not be competitive.
If you include the costs of 757 upgrades, or not, maybe it's profitable, maybe it's not. Moving the PS to EWR will be a disaster. It would be better to discontinue all together, which I think, this is the first move to do so. Can you say, saving face?
I said it before, and I'll say it again, almost none of the current PS customers will fly out of EWR. They will go to American and Delta to fly out of JFK. That is the whole point. Unless you have flown it, or ridden on a PS plane you have no idea what the level of service is. It is vastly different from anything out of EWR or any other place in the system. More what UAL first class used to be, and should be if we are to compete. What we currently have is not first class service, not even close. This seems to be the same old run and hide tactic, along with the current go cheap philosophy, and hope no one notices.
If we are to compete, this is not how to do it. Delta will continue to dominate and we will continue to not be competitive.
UAL says PS has been unprofitable for 7 years. Great service? Awesome. But if the customers aren't paying a price for the service that makes it profitable, then why in the ferk are we doing it?
JB is selling MINT seats for 600 each way. Let them do it and lose money. Trying to compete with them on price?
This has probably been a long time coming. EWR is closer to downtown than JFK.
06-17-2015 | 03:29 AM
#18
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,295
Likes: 4
From: CA
Who says JB is losing money on MINT? $600 can be had maybe a month out, you'll find the majority of seats are in the $1000 range.
If anything after listening to investor calls it's been a resounding success, both financially and with regard to customer satisfaction. Most conversations are where it will expand to next given it's success (probably BOS to those West coast destinations).
06-17-2015 | 04:37 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 439
Likes: 0
So we are going to offer the same onboard product, on more flights, with east coast/Europe connections, eliminate guppies making fuel stops to the west coast, eliminate costs of having another airport in the system, having Delta cut flights out of EWR, and all this is bad?
Additionally we have not had a hard time filling up the flights we already fly between EWR and LAX/SFO. Beyond the few seats in JetBlue's Mint and the small section of F on American's 321s our product is very similar to the Delta and Virgin. Of which Virgin does not offer lie flat, and Delta is still in the process of adding it (with all aisle access).
The only real game changer will be if the perimeter rule is dropped at LGA, and then it is a race to move the service to LGA which would create a higher yield than JFK or EWR.
Additionally we have not had a hard time filling up the flights we already fly between EWR and LAX/SFO. Beyond the few seats in JetBlue's Mint and the small section of F on American's 321s our product is very similar to the Delta and Virgin. Of which Virgin does not offer lie flat, and Delta is still in the process of adding it (with all aisle access).
The only real game changer will be if the perimeter rule is dropped at LGA, and then it is a race to move the service to LGA which would create a higher yield than JFK or EWR.
06-17-2015 | 12:19 PM
#20
Don't say Guppy
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,926
Likes: 0
From: Guppy driver
So we are going to offer the same onboard product, on more flights, with east coast/Europe connections, eliminate guppies making fuel stops to the west coast, eliminate costs of having another airport in the system, having Delta cut flights out of EWR, and all this is bad?
Additionally we have not had a hard time filling up the flights we already fly between EWR and LAX/SFO. Beyond the few seats in JetBlue's Mint and the small section of F on American's 321s our product is very similar to the Delta and Virgin. Of which Virgin does not offer lie flat, and Delta is still in the process of adding it (with all aisle access).
The only real game changer will be if the perimeter rule is dropped at LGA, and then it is a race to move the service to LGA which would create a higher yield than JFK or EWR.
Additionally we have not had a hard time filling up the flights we already fly between EWR and LAX/SFO. Beyond the few seats in JetBlue's Mint and the small section of F on American's 321s our product is very similar to the Delta and Virgin. Of which Virgin does not offer lie flat, and Delta is still in the process of adding it (with all aisle access).
The only real game changer will be if the perimeter rule is dropped at LGA, and then it is a race to move the service to LGA which would create a higher yield than JFK or EWR.
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