More obfuscation.

 

Yet another miss representation of those pesky things called facts. As of today are more than likely exceeding the DAL pilot costs after our raise.

Just a few of those areas that we exceed DAL in are retirement, vacation, per diem and training pay. Also just pure speculation but my assumption is our hotel, crew meal and insurance costs exceed DAL also.

 

The items you listed are very small and in the case of training pay incorrect.

Over the last three years the Delta pilots have made 4.6%, 4.9% & 14.4% more in profit sharing alone than United pilots. They have made 3% more pay than United pilots over the last two years. Their reserve guarantee is two hours more for up to two less days of work/month. They get up to 270 hours of sick leave/year compared to our 60 hours. That's over 2 months potential pay. DAL has a short term disability plan we have none. Delta pilots pay nothing for LTD although their benefits are taxed.

United pilots get 1% more B/C plan and better vacation accrual.

Sorry, but it isn't even close.

 

Guys...guys.

We have a TA to vote on. Whether it is more or less than Delta is really rather moot. The Delta Snap up, may never happen. If they are in full contract negotiations, there is a good chance they won't reach an agreement before the end of the extension. Therefore, no impact.

Anyway, is this a good TA for us, not SW, not Delta. Does it help them? Maybe, I don't care.

Is the pay worth a 2 year extension? That is the question. For me, it did not meet the direction for the Neg. committee and direction of the MEC to the master chairman. It is not worth the extension for me.

Dave

 

Very good points Dave. But for me, It IS worth it. I'm voting, "yes."

 

Very good. Lots of reasons to vote yes. Good luck to us either way.

 

We are talking about costs going forward so everything prior to 2016 does not matter in regards to the next PWA. Second, profit sharing is a company cost and not a pilot cost. The way managements look at the PS between two companies is the terms of the plan, not the profitability. So yet again, another point that means nothing at the table. Reserve guarantee means nothing also, they look at utilization in costing models. Just because they have a higher guarantee does not mean they are paying more for reserves. So unless one of us can provide the utilization rates for both companies we have no idea if this is a increased or decreased cost. As far as sick goes, is the Delta pilot group that much less healthy that they call in sick more? Again the costs of sick are the actual amounts used not what someone accrues. So unless you telling me they get sick more often at Delta the amounts of accrual are meaningless. If your sick, your sick and you do not go to work. As far as the lack of a STD verse our LTD plan, our R&I explained it too me once. Based on when our LTD plan with a shorter waiting period and fact that you can still work another field while on LTD the net sum is very close. With all that said the grass is not as green as you think is for DAL, and definitely not $400 mil a year more green.

 

Dave I have to object. If we have some people who are undecided or even those already made up their minds they are entitled to facts and not hear say.

Now you have me confused because you state he question is "is the pay worth a two year extension". Then you bring up something that has absolutely nothing to do with pay or an extension as to your decision point. On top of that can you explain how "items to discuss" equates to "items must be included"? We have seen evidence that all the items of the MEC resolution got discussed, and no items got added to the discussion with out MEC concurrence. So what exact direction was not followed?

 

The pilot portion is both a pilot cost and $ in pilot's pockets. IOW you can spend it.Actually the vast majority of reserves make the guarantee or a number of hours rooted in the guarantee and again DAL reserves work up to two less days for more pay (QOL). Oh, if only it were so simple. Ever flown with someone who should have called in sick? Did you talk to a Delta pilot about why the company was so anxious to amend their sick leave benefit?

What is funny is how you previously tried to claim the DAL contract exceeded the UPA. At least now you agree that it actually is a matter of how much more valuable the PWA is than the UPA. Progress.

 

You just keep missing the point completely. I am sorry that you just do not understand what happens during negotiations. Costing is not done on how one feels, thinks, or believes it is based on expected $$$. Stop trying to tie in how much goes into a pilots pocket because it does not equate to how much the company believes it plans on paying. So no matter how much you disagree with reality, DAL management believes its current run rate costs for pilots is the same as UALs. Now you add in our TA on top of that they know they will need to add 400 mill to the next PWA just to keep pace.

One more thing, you do not quite understand how the DAL reserve works. If they are getting the higher end guarantee they are getting the same amount of days off as our reserves. They only get the extra day off on guarantee of 72-75 hours.

Not sure how you came to your conclusion but I will stick with my original and factual based analyses that with no changes to the UPA or PWA our pilot costs are equal or higher going forward.