You might want to poll the membership on that fancy Delta sick leave. They get 270 hours per year...sure, but it does not carry over as I understand it. We can accumulate up to 1300 hours in our sick bank...making up to 1000 hours + available in a single year (up to max line construction cap)...not 60 hours. 60 is just the annual accumulation.

Profit Sharing? Well, Dal made 4.5B last year. Ual 1.97B. Similar story for the past few years. Although as I understand it, our PS should come in pretty good this year now that our margin in north of 6.9%.

Dal pay was 3% more than ours over the last 3 years? Well, it's a good thing we're about to vote in this TA and leap their arse by 12%+ next month. Followed by another 3% Jan 2017, and 2% Jan 2018. So in 2 years we're 18%+ above them and they're potentially still in Sect. 6 based on historical averages. 1.1B in cabbage.

And furloughees made whole? That's just the icing on the cake right there. Did you know Dal furloughees got furlough credit for longevity? We do too...going forward, but this TA makes it RETRO.

Dang, I am SO voting yes. And I'll bet you a beer the membership will vote yes as well. Probably similar to the MEC vote percentage...but i'll take 50% plus 1 dude.

Enjoy your raise....I know I will.

HAPPY NEW YEAR.

 

No real need to vote now that the YES vote is declared a winner. Was that a slip, referring to a divide along legacy lines/members on the MEC concerning the release of TA for membership vote? Need to stop that. I'm surprised that information was released by a strong YES supporter - Reason?

 

Let us know when you make up your mind.



Delta pilots' 2014 PS percentage was over 4 times United's at over double the profit. For 2015 the word is the Delta percentage will be 50% higher at a comparable profit level.

DAL management recognized the medium term value of their PS which is why they targeted it their pilots' TA. Thankfully, the Delta pilots said, "No thanks."

I wish. When PS is included we will be about 5% ahead of them on pay and three years behind in negotiations.

 

By your own admission a full section 6 starting from scratch will probably take DAL pilots beyond 2018 into 2019. That's 3 years. So if that's your opinion of how long a full section 6 negotiation will take in this industry (I agree with you, btw), we would need a 25% initial pay raise JUST TO BREAK EVEN on money obtained for our pilot group over this TA. The "no" voters say a 13% raise is too puny, so let's say they want a 20% raise to feel acceptable. That's 20% ON TOP OF the 25% you have to gain in order to reach a level playing field.

If you think section 6 negotiations are going to be an average of 3 years, then it makes no financial sense to vote "no". If you think section 6 negotiations are going to be quick, then they should be for DAL as well and we will gain via the snap up. But to suggest DAL will have a long torturous section 6 and we will have a quick easy section 6 is ridiculous. We are, after all negotiating in the exact same environment at essentially the exact same time. If anything they should be EASIER for DAL as they are soundly kicking our financial arses. So this TA provides a "win" for us either way. If negotiations are long, we win through the time/value of money. If they are short, we win with the DAL Snap Up. Go full section 6 and the only way you MIGHT win is if they are short.

 

HA.. Where did you get that? From the Extension Overview??...

Overall-Industry leading UPA TA pay rate: Exceeds failed DAL TA rates (considering their profit share monetization of 5.74%),

The TA exceeds their failed TA rates (considering profit sharing), it CRUSHES their current contract rates. You are just full of BS numbers you can't back up. And here is the thing. Profits come, and profits go. The PAY RATES on this TA end up 18%+ above the Dal PAY RATES. And when the sh!t hits the fan...and it always hits the fan, it is the PAY RATES that pay the bills. Yes. It passes easily.

 

There's the miscalculation. Delta pilots' 2014 profit sharing last year was 16.4% and if their Q4 is in line with expectations 2015 PS will be 22%+.

 

If you fail to see the difference in "I" think we are equal or higher, "They" think we cost the same and "You" think we cost 400 million less, it is not a surprise to see you come up with strange scenarios based your absurd interpretations.

 

If United had the same level of profits we would have about the same level of payout. You do realize that profit sharing amounts come from company performance?

 

That is incorrect.

DAL: Employee group shares 10% of pretax income up to and including $2.5B and 20% over $2.5B. Pilots share is approx. 35% of the Employee group share.
UAL: 10% Pretax up to 6.9% Pretax margin. 20% Pretax up to 6.9% Pretax margin (shared among eligible employees).

The DAL formulation has proven to be superior even relative to pretax income levels

 

If that is wrong, for 2015 what level of profit would equal equal 6.9% pretax margin?