Fleet Discussion and News
11-09-2017 | 04:22 AM
#511
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 0
From: UAL retired
Scope talk is a head fake. The union leadership has told us so, This is not the first time Kirby used this ploy. He tried it at AA as well. Get the pilots focused on Scope and then they will be relieved when you ask for concessions other than Scope. Watch the Cleveland video again. Kirby tells you as much in the video.
11-09-2017 | 05:08 AM
#512
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,042
Likes: 47
From: 767/757 CA
I have explained in detail with plenty of proof in other posts.
Scope talk is a head fake. The union leadership has told us so, This is not the first time Kirby used this ploy. He tried it at AA as well. Get the pilots focused on Scope and then they will be relieved when you ask for concessions other than Scope. Watch the Cleveland video again. Kirby tells you as much in the video.
Scope talk is a head fake. The union leadership has told us so, This is not the first time Kirby used this ploy. He tried it at AA as well. Get the pilots focused on Scope and then they will be relieved when you ask for concessions other than Scope. Watch the Cleveland video again. Kirby tells you as much in the video.
11-09-2017 | 07:03 AM
#513
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,083
Likes: 0
I have explained in detail with plenty of proof in other posts.
Scope talk is a head fake. The union leadership has told us so, This is not the first time Kirby used this ploy. He tried it at AA as well. Get the pilots focused on Scope and then they will be relieved when you ask for concessions other than Scope. Watch the Cleveland video again. Kirby tells you as much in the video.
Scope talk is a head fake. The union leadership has told us so, This is not the first time Kirby used this ploy. He tried it at AA as well. Get the pilots focused on Scope and then they will be relieved when you ask for concessions other than Scope. Watch the Cleveland video again. Kirby tells you as much in the video.
11-09-2017 | 07:48 AM
#515
Thread Starter
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 976
Likes: 75
From: NOYB
Anyone care to try and answer the questions I asked in #508?
11-09-2017 | 12:00 PM
#516
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 0
From: UAL retired
Joe, please gimme the "Readers Digest" (i.e. condensed, for those who came of age after magazines became obsolete) version of your point. I watch these things with bemused interest rather than bated breath. IOW, I've gotta have a lot of time on my hands before I watch a video of a company dog and pony show or chase through all of your posts.
Ok for the Reader's Digest crowd:
1) ALPA MEC said don't worry about Scope, the polls tell us we have the most unified pilot group ever on record and everyone understands Scope is a dead issue.
2) I posted an email I got from Todd wherein he says "I already told the company Scope is not up for discussion."
3) In the infamous Cleveland video Kirby did say he'd love to convince pilots to open Scope, BUT he went on to say he knows that it isn't gonna happen and he plans on kicking butt regardless.
Point is: we don't need to waste time worrying about Scope. It's the other gives for which we should be concerned.
11-09-2017 | 01:00 PM
#517
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,076
Likes: 3
From: The GF of FUPM
I respectfully and completely disagree.
Ten bucks says that today, the spineless 15 percent of the combined group could easily be talked into relaxing scope with only minimal incentive. Add to that a modicum of economic bad economic news, either UA specific or US/Global, and that number jumps to 25-35 percent. Add some really bad news and the Marvin's will be sweating bullets and wringing their hands.
Of course there will be guys here who will say that I am smoking ganja, but consider that we have a ton of guys nearing retirement. Most are secure in their left seat job and scope now means little to them. Recall that they have been severely shafted several times by both the vagaries of the industry and through malice during bankruptcies. You have the ESOP crowd, and the "I flew for peanuts" crowd. They see third year guys now making far more than they did for decades. Money talks. But, big money shouts. You dangle enough in front of them you've got their vote.
Fortunately, what may ultimately save us from ourselves is our MC. But don't be surprised by their capitulation when the feces starts flying because the sky is falling.
UA getting more RJs is a Billions of dollars proposition over the life of the airframe. They will be pulling out all the stops and opening their cash drawer WIDE. I submit that if they don't get a big chunk of that RJ flying back this time, they likely never will. And they know it.
Meanwhile, there will be additional attacks on other parts of the CBA.
Guys will willingly cave for these items "if it protects scope" and if the Benjamin's are present.
All of it (!) is a giant smelly canard. They can afford for us to do it all and have it all. One need only look at how much the last two teams were awarded when we were making half of what we make now.
Don't be a sucker.
Ten bucks says that today, the spineless 15 percent of the combined group could easily be talked into relaxing scope with only minimal incentive. Add to that a modicum of economic bad economic news, either UA specific or US/Global, and that number jumps to 25-35 percent. Add some really bad news and the Marvin's will be sweating bullets and wringing their hands.
Of course there will be guys here who will say that I am smoking ganja, but consider that we have a ton of guys nearing retirement. Most are secure in their left seat job and scope now means little to them. Recall that they have been severely shafted several times by both the vagaries of the industry and through malice during bankruptcies. You have the ESOP crowd, and the "I flew for peanuts" crowd. They see third year guys now making far more than they did for decades. Money talks. But, big money shouts. You dangle enough in front of them you've got their vote.
Fortunately, what may ultimately save us from ourselves is our MC. But don't be surprised by their capitulation when the feces starts flying because the sky is falling.
UA getting more RJs is a Billions of dollars proposition over the life of the airframe. They will be pulling out all the stops and opening their cash drawer WIDE. I submit that if they don't get a big chunk of that RJ flying back this time, they likely never will. And they know it.
Meanwhile, there will be additional attacks on other parts of the CBA.
Guys will willingly cave for these items "if it protects scope" and if the Benjamin's are present.
All of it (!) is a giant smelly canard. They can afford for us to do it all and have it all. One need only look at how much the last two teams were awarded when we were making half of what we make now.
Don't be a sucker.
Last edited by oldmako; 11-09-2017 at 01:11 PM.
11-09-2017 | 07:48 PM
#519
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 0
From: 756 Left Side
I respectfully and completely disagree.
Ten bucks says that today, the spineless 15 percent of the combined group could easily be talked into relaxing scope with only minimal incentive. Add to that a modicum of economic bad economic news, either UA specific or US/Global, and that number jumps to 25-35 percent. Add some really bad news and the Marvin's will be sweating bullets and wringing their hands.
Of course there will be guys here who will say that I am smoking ganja, but consider that we have a ton of guys nearing retirement. Most are secure in their left seat job and scope now means little to them. Recall that they have been severely shafted several times by both the vagaries of the industry and through malice during bankruptcies. You have the ESOP crowd, and the "I flew for peanuts" crowd. They see third year guys now making far more than they did for decades. Money talks. But, big money shouts. You dangle enough in front of them you've got their vote.
Fortunately, what may ultimately save us from ourselves is our MC. But don't be surprised by their capitulation when the feces starts flying because the sky is falling.
UA getting more RJs is a Billions of dollars proposition over the life of the airframe. They will be pulling out all the stops and opening their cash drawer WIDE. I submit that if they don't get a big chunk of that RJ flying back this time, they likely never will. And they know it.
Meanwhile, there will be additional attacks on other parts of the CBA.
Guys will willingly cave for these items "if it protects scope" and if the Benjamin's are present.
All of it (!) is a giant smelly canard. They can afford for us to do it all and have it all. One need only look at how much the last two teams were awarded when we were making half of what we make now.
Don't be a sucker.
Ten bucks says that today, the spineless 15 percent of the combined group could easily be talked into relaxing scope with only minimal incentive. Add to that a modicum of economic bad economic news, either UA specific or US/Global, and that number jumps to 25-35 percent. Add some really bad news and the Marvin's will be sweating bullets and wringing their hands.
Of course there will be guys here who will say that I am smoking ganja, but consider that we have a ton of guys nearing retirement. Most are secure in their left seat job and scope now means little to them. Recall that they have been severely shafted several times by both the vagaries of the industry and through malice during bankruptcies. You have the ESOP crowd, and the "I flew for peanuts" crowd. They see third year guys now making far more than they did for decades. Money talks. But, big money shouts. You dangle enough in front of them you've got their vote.
Fortunately, what may ultimately save us from ourselves is our MC. But don't be surprised by their capitulation when the feces starts flying because the sky is falling.
UA getting more RJs is a Billions of dollars proposition over the life of the airframe. They will be pulling out all the stops and opening their cash drawer WIDE. I submit that if they don't get a big chunk of that RJ flying back this time, they likely never will. And they know it.
Meanwhile, there will be additional attacks on other parts of the CBA.
Guys will willingly cave for these items "if it protects scope" and if the Benjamin's are present.
All of it (!) is a giant smelly canard. They can afford for us to do it all and have it all. One need only look at how much the last two teams were awarded when we were making half of what we make now.
Don't be a sucker.
Don't kid yourselves, (almost) everything is for sale.. and everything has a price.
Motch
11-10-2017 | 04:09 AM
#520
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
I respectfully and completely disagree.
Ten bucks says that today, the spineless 15 percent of the combined group could easily be talked into relaxing scope with only minimal incentive. Add to that a modicum of economic bad economic news, either UA specific or US/Global, and that number jumps to 25-35 percent. Add some really bad news and the Marvin's will be sweating bullets and wringing their hands.
Of course there will be guys here who will say that I am smoking ganja, but consider that we have a ton of guys nearing retirement. Most are secure in their left seat job and scope now means little to them. Recall that they have been severely shafted several times by both the vagaries of the industry and through malice during bankruptcies. You have the ESOP crowd, and the "I flew for peanuts" crowd. They see third year guys now making far more than they did for decades. Money talks. But, big money shouts. You dangle enough in front of them you've got their vote.
Fortunately, what may ultimately save us from ourselves is our MC. But don't be surprised by their capitulation when the feces starts flying because the sky is falling.
UA getting more RJs is a Billions of dollars proposition over the life of the airframe. They will be pulling out all the stops and opening their cash drawer WIDE. I submit that if they don't get a big chunk of that RJ flying back this time, they likely never will. And they know it.
Meanwhile, there will be additional attacks on other parts of the CBA.
Guys will willingly cave for these items "if it protects scope" and if the Benjamin's are present.
All of it (!) is a giant smelly canard. They can afford for us to do it all and have it all. One need only look at how much the last two teams were awarded when we were making half of what we make now.
Don't be a sucker.
Ten bucks says that today, the spineless 15 percent of the combined group could easily be talked into relaxing scope with only minimal incentive. Add to that a modicum of economic bad economic news, either UA specific or US/Global, and that number jumps to 25-35 percent. Add some really bad news and the Marvin's will be sweating bullets and wringing their hands.
Of course there will be guys here who will say that I am smoking ganja, but consider that we have a ton of guys nearing retirement. Most are secure in their left seat job and scope now means little to them. Recall that they have been severely shafted several times by both the vagaries of the industry and through malice during bankruptcies. You have the ESOP crowd, and the "I flew for peanuts" crowd. They see third year guys now making far more than they did for decades. Money talks. But, big money shouts. You dangle enough in front of them you've got their vote.
Fortunately, what may ultimately save us from ourselves is our MC. But don't be surprised by their capitulation when the feces starts flying because the sky is falling.
UA getting more RJs is a Billions of dollars proposition over the life of the airframe. They will be pulling out all the stops and opening their cash drawer WIDE. I submit that if they don't get a big chunk of that RJ flying back this time, they likely never will. And they know it.
Meanwhile, there will be additional attacks on other parts of the CBA.
Guys will willingly cave for these items "if it protects scope" and if the Benjamin's are present.
All of it (!) is a giant smelly canard. They can afford for us to do it all and have it all. One need only look at how much the last two teams were awarded when we were making half of what we make now.
Don't be a sucker.
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