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Old 12-05-2016 | 10:22 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by b52dthdlr
i voted for the upa extension. Given current events im glad i did. Altimeter and par now sit on the ual board. Aircraft orders have been deferred (cancelled in my opinion), tk building construction has been postponed, but you can bet that the billion dollar stock repurchase will happen. Now nai. Time to man up.

"may you live in interesting times" a chinese curse

+1000

filler
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Old 12-05-2016 | 06:35 PM
  #42  
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This was forwarded to me tonight.


Subject: DC Update 12.4.16



DC UPDATE



NAI

This past Friday, on three year anniversary of Norwegian Air International’s (NAI) application for a foreign air carrier permit, the Department of Transportation gave its final approval for the carrier. Saturday, President Obama signed the order making it official. The docket link can be found HERE. As you read in ALPA’s press release (available HERE), we are aggressively reviewing all options.



ALPA will continue to fight this egregious misinterpretation of the Open Skies agreement by the DOT. ALPA’s legal and GA teams are preparing an action plan for immediate next steps. Many of you have been in contact with various government affairs team members over the weekend. We will have more information for you to share with your pilot groups in the next several days, but below are the answers to a couple common questions we’ve received.



What options are you reviewing?

The Legal team is evaluating the possibility of a court challenge, and the Government Affairs team is working through draft iterations of legislative language. We are contacting elected officials and members of the President-elect’s transition team for input. All options remain on the table.



Can President-elect Trump reverse this?

No. Unless a court intervenes to stay the DOT’s order until after January 20th (one option under review in the legal department), NAI’s permit will be granted and in-hand this week. At that point, a new docket would have to open, and new separate proceedings begin to revoke the permit. Such an action could not be taken by the President-elect unilaterally.



ON THE HILL

Last week the House passed the 2017 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) after a year of negotiation. During the closed door discussions, Senator Inhofe and the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) have tried to insert language which would eliminate third class medical requirements for private pilots. This action flies in the face of the compromise language ALPA supported just five months ago. Once again, AOPA has demonstrated bad faith in their negotiations with ALPA on this issue. Despite this cloak-and-dagger attempt to undermine the safety of our airspace, ALPA was successful at removing the language from the NDAA and we will continue to monitor every bill moving through Congress to ensure this harmful language never becomes law.



House and Senate Republican leaders are finalizing a new continuing resolution to fund the government through the spring. Included in the CR are several ALPA priorities such as the Federal Flight Deck Officers program. Additionally, a reauthorization of the Water Resources Development Act (WRDA) is expected before Congress adjourns. These legislative items are likely to be the last bills passed by the 114th Congress before they adjourn on Friday or early next week. The 115th Congress will convene on January 3rd, 2017.










Vanessa Kermick
Grassroots Coordinator

Government Affairs
Air Line Pilots Association, International
(202) 797-4042
(202) 797-4030 (Fax)
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Old 12-05-2016 | 06:56 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by oldmako
Glad to have the funds, but I will forever disagree on the execution.

Must say I am disappointed that so many are already prepping to fold their tents and are getting the white flags ready.

Oscar says 4B (or is it 5?) in profits within just a few years. Who are we to disagree? He's just now starting to get the synergy-wagon in gear. Although, this weeks snow in ORD shoots a big hole in that theory.
It's not so much of a white flag and a folding of the tent. It's more like a "Really", "Oh Really" moment. You mean ALPA knew this was their moment to get this handled and taken care of. For me, it personally demonstrates how ineffectual ALPA is at safe-guarding the career and the profession. If we can't protect it from absolutely illegitimate and unfair competition then what can we do?

It really also demonstrates what the Obama administration thinks of the airline industry. Obama doesn't think of us as "labor". Only card carrying union members who won't likely lose jobs. He doesn't care if we all take pay cuts some day. That doesn't affect him, particularly because this isn't a legacy issue for him and his party lost the election so he really doesn't give a flip.

Not much different in my opinion as to how Bill Clinton handled NAFTA. now over 20 years later we find out where the land mines are in that so called free trade agreement.

There will be increasing downward pressure on labor rates across trans-atlantic routes due to Open Skies and the NAI scheme. If point to point within the USA gets approved for NAI this will get very interesting.

Maybe we need to form another legislative affairs coalition outside of ALPA to assist in representing our interests and those of the career at large. Maybe pilots from all the US airlines need a more unified and more forceful agent to drive results.....Just a thought...

I am not impressed with how ALPA handled the entire issue. Do we need to have the ALPA leadership more closely scrutinized?
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Old 12-05-2016 | 07:00 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by b52dthdlr
keeping in mind the absolute importance of our contract i am inclined to relax certain rules about the opening of a new domicile in a foreign country. we should encourage our company to setup a TED op in NAI's backyard, charge $5 each way, and bleed them out. with the money we have saved from recent decisions we have the bank to do it. ah if we only had the balls........
Just hire the NAI pilots and give them a 50 cent pay raise.
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Old 12-05-2016 | 07:02 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by AllenAllert
I've watched as you floundered trying to protect yourself but this is absolutely a dumb comment. LCAL types used this phrase "its not personal, its just good business" as they tried to protect JS and JP during their attempted robbing and stealing portion of the early merger.

Anything the company does that has a negative effect on our pilot careers at United is PERSONAL. Maybe it's time you take off that management hat.
That's the silliest thing I've ever read.
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Old 12-05-2016 | 07:12 PM
  #46  
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I think we're placing too much blame to ALPA and Obama. For every airline pilot who opposed this, and for every dollar we spent, there were thousands of others who wanted this to go through had far deeper pockets than we do. Just think how much money Boeing spent to push for this. Our's was but a pittance in comparison. Make no mistake, I think this really sucks and as Special Tracking said, the lid to the coffin is wide open and we're the ones peering inside.

I think we were outgunned and outspent. Hopefully Trump will see things differently and act in our favor, but I doubt it.

I bristle when I hear comments regarding concessions. That's what triggered my post. Anyone in this industry who doesn't arrange his finances for the inevitable downturn is foolish. Realization that we're in a cyclical industry is one thing, but caving early is another.
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Old 12-05-2016 | 07:13 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by baseball
That's the silliest thing I've ever read.

Reading comprehension again? You need to work on it.

Now - give us another one of your 1,000 word rants.
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Old 12-05-2016 | 08:31 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by b52dthdlr
i think you nailed it by pointing out the one bad actor with the greatest influence in this sordid NAI debacle that most everyone on this board (myself included) have overlooked.... Boeing......... BRING ON THE A350s (after we upgrade the bunks of course)
Exactly. Boeing has done more damage to US Aviation jobs than anyone, while fleecing your tax dollars through sh1t products, ex/im financing, union breaking, and govt contract scams for decades.
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Old 12-05-2016 | 10:27 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by oldmako
Plenty. While I don't care for the types he's picking for his staff, most of my dyspepsia comes directly from him. He's too easily agitated and far too reactionary. While his flippant sound bite's might sound good in the trailer park, that type of diplomacy won't sit well abroad. The CIC has to gently juggle a lot of ripe peaches at once without bruising any one of them. I don't think he can do it.
Sitting in my trailer park, I can't say I like the soundbites either. But T-Rump didn't make the soundbites, the press did.

The view from my trailer park hasn't changed in the last month, my Hog is still sitting out front. But we are going to be living in interesting times.

Grab some popcorn and a bottle of Jack, and watch.
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Old 12-06-2016 | 02:51 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by oldmako
I think we're placing too much blame to ALPA and Obama. For every airline pilot who opposed this, and for every dollar we spent, there were thousands of others who wanted this to go through had far deeper pockets than we do. Just think how much money Boeing spent to push for this. Our's was but a pittance in comparison. Make no mistake, I think this really sucks and as Special Tracking said, the lid to the coffin is wide open and we're the ones peering inside.

I think we were outgunned and outspent. Hopefully Trump will see things differently and act in our favor, but I doubt it.

I bristle when I hear comments regarding concessions. That's what triggered my post. Anyone in this industry who doesn't arrange his finances for the inevitable downturn is foolish. Realization that we're in a cyclical industry is one thing, but caving early is another.
Shaft Master is correct. From industry (Boeing and tourism), chambers of commerce, passenger groups, to the EU's desire for eventual complete and unfettered access to the U.S. market, ALPA and the publicly demonized BIG airlines didn't have a political chance in hell. Politicians have disregarded the calls of labor because they think little NAI doesn't pose a threat. The camel's nose never dose. It's only when the beast is fully in the tent spitting on everyone the true effect will be known and it will be too late to unwind cause. The offending politicians will be long gone by then having enjoyed the fruits of a long and financially prosperous political career. If you think I'm only referring to current politicians think again. This goes to the Bush administration who wrote this policy.

For those who have not enjoyed the benefits of an airline downturn it is quite eye opening. There are those who will diminish what we have and accomplished. They will call this a part time job, overpaid and how we have it so much better than the real world of workers. The time will come again when this select few will act as a cancer on our career more than willing to open your wallets to concessions for various misguided reasons. It might be twenty years from now, but the time will come. Remember how much you endured to get where you are. The current contract is still a bankruptcy contract from 14 years ago.
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