You sir have missed your calling. That was hilarious

 

Lowslung,
you wrote,
”I’ll also echo what others have said about inflation. $95k in 1995 was equivalent to just over $200k today. Y’all were hardly at poverty wages as FOs…especially for being at an airline that wasn’t exactly a desirable place to be at the time.”

No F/O’s were making the equivalent of $95K a year in 1995. I was hired in 95 and at that time it would take an F/O 7 years to crack 100k
IIRC 3rd year F/O pay was $56 an hour… you are correct about UPS wasn’t most people’s first choice, but in 1994-96 timeframe, all of the majors had furloughed pilots, many of them came here. Bob Travis was one. Some of the smarter pilots realized the potential of the internet and had the foresight to chose Cargo over pax carriers.

 

I was specifically responding to cocoloco’s:

“And 10th year FO pay was double digits. Not even $100/hr.”

Point being; “I sucked it up so you should too” is not a good argument. It’s lazy and it’s detrimental to what the EB is trying to accomplish. I’m sure UPS’s negotiators would be absolutely delighted to bring up the fact that a chunk of our membership thinks that way when Bob & co present pay proposals that include a large bump to first year pay.

As far as the “old heads” go, I have tremendous respect for those who put it all on the line & made this place (IPA) what it is today. I wish that attitude were more prevalent today but it seems that more often than not it’s the newer blood that’s pushing for meaningful change while many of the veterans insist that we can do nothing because UPS is gonna UPS. I get it. Many will be retiring under this contract and don’t want to see their retirement bump threatened by the young guys who insist on those pesky QOL upgrades. Problem is, 2014 & later hires make up the biggest voting block today & if we’re not careful we’ll end up in the same boat as the FedEx guys.

 

Lowslung,
You may be confused about my post. I was just stating the facts circa 1995. I never prescribed to the theory that, “It sucked for us, so it should suck for you” I hope you didn’t think that’s what I meant. I had a job at United, and came here, because a few people smarter than me, saw the potential of Cargo in the early internet years. I’m retiring soon, but I hope you guys knock it out of the park! I just see and hear too many guys picking up trips and JA like it’s a sport, reminiscent of the greed that FedEx guys are proud of. There will come a time soon when the slicker will have to be shut off. I have faith in our group…

 

Kinda of like how we won’t even waste a minute discussing PBS?

Old farts know how this place operates through long history of experience. No amount of foot stomping is gunna change UPS’s minds.

UPS is in negotiations, are you? Sit back, relax, and enjoy the flight is for passengers.

 

I feel sorry for the new guys coming here, especially the younger folks who will have to endure these schedules for a very long time. We have very little schedule flexibility, ability to drop, most of us can’t even use our floating vacation days ‘cause the company keeps denying them, the list goes on. But wait, we have a pension 🙄.

Someone who has time on their side, say at least 25 years of service, is completely nuts to come here. Time value of money will give people plenty of time to amass a large enough nest egg to rival a pension annuity, all while enjoying a significantly better QOL, schedule flexibility, variety of flying, etc.

Unless one truly dislikes flying passengers or has a strong bond to one of our domiciles (don’t know how much longer MIA will be open), there is no reason to come to Brown. Not monetarily, not schedules, not benefits. Zero reasons.

For clarification, this does not mean there are many of us who are unhappy here (we have gotten used to the suck and embrace it &#129315, but I am willing to bet if we had the same job market today like we did when many of us were hired, I bet many of us would not be here today. UPS can get away with its asinine behavior because we only hire around 300 in our best years (a bit more here and there). When you only need to hire around 30 people a month, you will always get decent candidates.

For prospective people, do a lot of research before coming here. The startle factor once you get here is quite high. Take a look at our bid packages, this alone will give you plenty of doubt. Our pay and benefits will come up to par and probably exceed that of the Majors when we get a TA, but if our scheduling rules don’t improve, it’s gonna be a long and painful career for you.

 

Agree with all of that & my “ire” was more pointed at guys like cocoloco, not you personally or the “old guys” in general. To be sure, there are plenty of veterans who “get it”, just as there are plenty of new folks with their heads up their own orifices. 100% agree that the time to start acting like we are in negotiations is RIGHT NOW, & folks had better have the capacity to live on base pay, lest they be surprised when the EB says it’s time to do the job of one pilot. I want to be clear here; I may not agree with some of the calls the EB has made in the past & think there are many areas in which we should be doing better as a union. I am, however, 100% prepared to toe whatever line the EB asks me to toe as we progress in negotiations. I will give them all the ammunition I can & when a TA comes out, I will study it closely & decide whether it’s something I can stomach. I hope most of us share that mentality.

 

All of this is true for Purple as well. Throw on top of this that the company takes OT trips as soon as the trips populate and pawn them off to reserves. Additionally, they artificially changed how our line values are calculated so they can reduce overall bid line values. All to turn to screws during negotiations.

As someone that was hired shortly after our last contract, I’ve had the stars align during my career progression. Two year upgrade followed by WB upgrade two years after that. But the QOL just does not compare to the passenger carriers. Hub turns literally make you sick. Recovery after a trip takes at least a day. Often leads to unnecessary friction with the family just cause you’re tired. Fortunately, I live in base and bid reserve and largely avoid more than two turn in a row.

All that to say…to future prospects of cargo flying, think long and hard about the decision. As a WB Captain at Purple just under the ten year mark, IMO the juice is no longer worth the squeeze for cargo.

 

True…until a recession comes along. 🤔

 

There was a massive black swan event just a few years ago and we watched government step in & basically pay pax pilots to stay home. Not saying that makes pax carriers immune to downturns or that cargo isn’t better insulated, but times have changed since the 90s & aughts. Most of us that have been hired at brown & purple in the past decade are not patting ourselves on the back for our prescient insight.