The actual vacancy
05-09-2020, 11:19 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 134
Originally Posted by squib
There is a vast difference between negativity and reality. There are people with 4 digit employee numbers going on reserve. You can stay positive all you want. People need to realize what’s happening.
05-09-2020, 12:05 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 407
Originally Posted by squib
There is a vast difference between negativity and reality. There are people with 4 digit employee numbers going on reserve. You can stay positive all you want. People need to realize what’s happening.
05-10-2020, 06:17 AM
#33
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by Omnislash
The "reality" is that we still have jobs and they didn't drop us to under 100 captains and make everyone else an FO. I'm not saying this is a great situation but it's the best we could ask for with the current circumstances.
The company doesn't need 79% of pilots on reserve. Make them line holders and give them a LC line to preserve the QOL and keep morale high. Our pay wouldn't change much, if any--good for the company, good for us.
Does our contract not have anything that prevents them from making X% of pilots reserve status? Seems like this would be a standard addition for a union that represents 60,000 pilots.
05-10-2020, 10:37 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 134
Originally Posted by jj158
I agree the reality is better than some other places, but I think there's still room for improvement here. We went from 402 line holders down to 120 (143 reserves to 447).... that's a huge change in quality of life for 304 guys--then throw in the fact that this change happens in 20 days and you probably won't be living in base anymore and it's a disaster.
The company doesn't need 79% of pilots on reserve. Make them line holders and give them a LC line to preserve the QOL and keep morale high. Our pay wouldn't change much, if any--good for the company, good for us.
Does our contract not have anything that prevents them from making X% of pilots reserve status? Seems like this would be a standard addition for a union that represents 60,000 pilots.
The company doesn't need 79% of pilots on reserve. Make them line holders and give them a LC line to preserve the QOL and keep morale high. Our pay wouldn't change much, if any--good for the company, good for us.
Does our contract not have anything that prevents them from making X% of pilots reserve status? Seems like this would be a standard addition for a union that represents 60,000 pilots.
You claim that we went from 402 line holders to 120. That's a 70% reduction while our flying has been dropped by 90%. There is argument to the need for even less lineholders for our assigned flying. Line Construction rules govern how the lines are built and there is no requirement to keep people on relief lines when there isn't even a chance that an increased number of the lines can be used. The company is not required to pay us full guarantee with almost no obligation to them. The company has a little more flexibility with reserves and should have a right to utilize pilots that they are paying at guarantee. Long Call Reserve seems to do what you want as long as they don't needlessly convert everyone and that was addressed by the union recently.
Another option would have been a mass downgrade to align the number of higher paid captains with the need from our reduced flying. At that point we would have just had a very large amount of reserve FOs. My argument to that of increased training cost was easily turned down by the increased availability of sim time, instructors, a very short training footprint to qualify in the right seat, the lack of demand for those pilots to do anything else right now, and the fact that they are all being paid at full guarantee at a higher pay rate right now with little actual obligation.
For your last question, there is no limit to the numbers of reserves, but there is a minimum. The reason for that is because there IS a way in the contract for them to not have a ton of reserves that they don't need. That provision is called Furlough. Outside of this once ever scenario with COVID-19 and the CARES act, no company would keep hundreds of additional employees that they don't need. Even with this, or situation could be much worse with less captains and even less lineholder positions in both seats.
QOL undoubtedly is much worse for commuters and those that have recently become commuters due to displacement. I'll be commuting for reserve for the first time in years. For me, the loa to stay at home won't pay me enough, so I can't take that. With that, I understand that I have to hold up my end of the deal to get my full pay. For the guys that can make 30 hours of pay work, good for them and that's way better than the previous offer of PTO for an entire month.
It's a rough time for all of us. I hope we can get through this sooner than later. I also hope we can have each other's backs because, regardless the cliche, we truly are all in this together and some of us are having a tougher time with it.
05-10-2020, 05:44 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 241
Originally Posted by Omnislash
I see your frustration and I'm there with you but there are many things in play right now that have never been seen by our industry. I have been asking a lot of the same questions and will answer you in the seemingly harsh no BS way I was answered. Don't shoot the messenger!
You claim that we went from 402 line holders to 120. That's a 70% reduction while our flying has been dropped by 90%. There is argument to the need for even less lineholders for our assigned flying. Line Construction rules govern how the lines are built and there is no requirement to keep people on relief lines when there isn't even a chance that an increased number of the lines can be used. The company is not required to pay us full guarantee with almost no obligation to them. The company has a little more flexibility with reserves and should have a right to utilize pilots that they are paying at guarantee. Long Call Reserve seems to do what you want as long as they don't needlessly convert everyone and that was addressed by the union recently.
Another option would have been a mass downgrade to align the number of higher paid captains with the need from our reduced flying. At that point we would have just had a very large amount of reserve FOs. My argument to that of increased training cost was easily turned down by the increased availability of sim time, instructors, a very short training footprint to qualify in the right seat, the lack of demand for those pilots to do anything else right now, and the fact that they are all being paid at full guarantee at a higher pay rate right now with little actual obligation.
For your last question, there is no limit to the numbers of reserves, but there is a minimum. The reason for that is because there IS a way in the contract for them to not have a ton of reserves that they don't need. That provision is called Furlough. Outside of this once ever scenario with COVID-19 and the CARES act, no company would keep hundreds of additional employees that they don't need. Even with this, or situation could be much worse with less captains and even less lineholder positions in both seats.
QOL undoubtedly is much worse for commuters and those that have recently become commuters due to displacement. I'll be commuting for reserve for the first time in years. For me, the loa to stay at home won't pay me enough, so I can't take that. With that, I understand that I have to hold up my end of the deal to get my full pay. For the guys that can make 30 hours of pay work, good for them and that's way better than the previous offer of PTO for an entire month.
It's a rough time for all of us. I hope we can get through this sooner than later. I also hope we can have each other's backs because, regardless the cliche, we truly are all in this together and some of us are having a tougher time with it.
You claim that we went from 402 line holders to 120. That's a 70% reduction while our flying has been dropped by 90%. There is argument to the need for even less lineholders for our assigned flying. Line Construction rules govern how the lines are built and there is no requirement to keep people on relief lines when there isn't even a chance that an increased number of the lines can be used. The company is not required to pay us full guarantee with almost no obligation to them. The company has a little more flexibility with reserves and should have a right to utilize pilots that they are paying at guarantee. Long Call Reserve seems to do what you want as long as they don't needlessly convert everyone and that was addressed by the union recently.
Another option would have been a mass downgrade to align the number of higher paid captains with the need from our reduced flying. At that point we would have just had a very large amount of reserve FOs. My argument to that of increased training cost was easily turned down by the increased availability of sim time, instructors, a very short training footprint to qualify in the right seat, the lack of demand for those pilots to do anything else right now, and the fact that they are all being paid at full guarantee at a higher pay rate right now with little actual obligation.
For your last question, there is no limit to the numbers of reserves, but there is a minimum. The reason for that is because there IS a way in the contract for them to not have a ton of reserves that they don't need. That provision is called Furlough. Outside of this once ever scenario with COVID-19 and the CARES act, no company would keep hundreds of additional employees that they don't need. Even with this, or situation could be much worse with less captains and even less lineholder positions in both seats.
QOL undoubtedly is much worse for commuters and those that have recently become commuters due to displacement. I'll be commuting for reserve for the first time in years. For me, the loa to stay at home won't pay me enough, so I can't take that. With that, I understand that I have to hold up my end of the deal to get my full pay. For the guys that can make 30 hours of pay work, good for them and that's way better than the previous offer of PTO for an entire month.
It's a rough time for all of us. I hope we can get through this sooner than later. I also hope we can have each other's backs because, regardless the cliche, we truly are all in this together and some of us are having a tougher time with it.
05-11-2020, 11:58 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 356
Originally Posted by RabidW0mbat
that’s further down the road...wasn’t it April 18th when our CEO said he would maintain regular, open communication with us regarding CARES money and other developments? Radio silence. 20 days of nothing from the C suite. He said they expected CARES approval “next week” in the April 18th email... “Next week” was 2 weeks ago. I should preface this by saying I’m not surprised, it’s the companies MO, but if you’re going to say you’re going do something, then don’t, you keep losing face and the confidence from those you lead.
05-11-2020, 12:48 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 186
Originally Posted by Imapylot
I’m guessing they got approved for the money. If they didn’t, they probably would’ve already announced furloughs.
05-15-2020, 12:04 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 356
Originally Posted by dremaldent
I find it a little interesting that the LOA expires on September 31st, could be a coincidence but seems to be awfully convenient.
05-15-2020, 12:27 PM
#40
Used to Get Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Position: CRJ-200
Posts: 428
Originally Posted by Imapylot
It’s absolutely not a coincidence. The company knows they can furlough on October 1st and that is what they fully intend to do. Why would they offer someone 30 hours or 60 hours or whatever when they can pay them 0? There will be no more LOAs come October 1st. Just a whole bunch of furloughs. If you’re not in the top 350 or so, you better already be looking for another job.
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